Recently test drove a used EX90 PHEV. I was shocked at how rough the transition from electric to ICE was. The owner said he never drove it in all-electric mode, just in hybrid mode (so the ICE is on all the time). We liked other aspects of the vehicle, but once we saw the vehicle history from the dealer, we knew it'd be thousands of dollars every year or two for repairs.
asciii 2 hours ago [-]
Volvo may not want to replace the car for the guy...but from a marketing standpoint, they truly picked the wrong hill.
The site is very nice and pretty thorough.
Makes me not want to get this car or any Volvo!
xyx0826 31 minutes ago [-]
I applaud his efforts to document this what must’ve been a nightmare of a case for him. But it felt like a lot of the wording is speculative or hyperbolic in nature and aggressively tries to paint Volvo in a bad light. For example:
“Analysis of Volvo's Final Response: This response … confirms Volvo's complete abandonment of customer responsibility…This is Volvo's definition of ‘customer care’ in 2025.”
“Center Display Failure - Critical Interface Blackout: Main Controls Inaccessible”
“Climate Control Malfunction - Climate System Override: Controls Unresponsive Despite Interface Status”
“Complete Center Screen Malfunction - Total System Breakdown: Hard Reset Failed to Restore Screen”
I know little about Volvo or this case; I’m choosing to offer them some benefits of doubt. Comms and decision making are prone to break down on the corporate ladder. Volvo had no doubt fumbled his case badly but I’m not convinced it is indicative of the company’s overall customer support policy. Sure, the main touchscreen had failed. But how is this an “override” of HVAC or a “total system breakdown”? And what’s the “system” anyways? On top of all that, these subtitle summaries smell like AI.
I don’t deny that Volvo has a lot to answer for. Though the choice of these instigating descriptions might not be the best one giving the author is actively pursuing litigation.
belval 22 minutes ago [-]
Eh the author is coming from a place of emotion (considering the effort put into the website) so I would definitely cut them some slack on the fairness of their reporting. The owner is telling their story, not a journalist.
> But how is this an “override” of HVAC or a “total system breakdown”?
Complete failure of the throttle would fall within total system breakdown to me.
> Comms and decision making are prone to break down on the corporate ladder.
Businesses do not deserve the benefit of the doubt, they aren't human. If their support ladder broke down to this point that it is fair game to name and shame and up to them to do a PR push and fix their support.
dzhiurgis 11 minutes ago [-]
I agree it's not deadly critical, but if you can't pass state inspection with broken screen/engine light/broken stop light then case is clear.
dexzod 1 hours ago [-]
Agree 100% the website is very well layed out. The information is presented in very readable format. After a single scroll I was able to fully understand the issues and conclude that the guy has a valid case. Too bad for Volvo for having a horrible customer support
ls-a 47 minutes ago [-]
I was thinking about the site too. It looked like a perfect example for AI, then I found the lovable badge.
chaosprint 24 minutes ago [-]
Lovable is really good at this kind of use case and experience. Ironically it's also Swedish philosophy based, no much hardcore tech(the heavy lifting is claude ) but focus on the experience. Similar to Volvo not promoting speed and handling but emphasize safety. But we know now that speed and handling in many ways show the tech of that vehicle and it reflects on safety to a large scale Imho
mark_mart 1 hours ago [-]
I was genuinely thinking about buying a Volvo car today. This blog changed my mind now.
It seem they are the exact opposite of what I thought.
jonplackett 45 minutes ago [-]
I love that you made a website to spread the word. Well done. Screw those guys.
Hey Volvo, I’ll now never buy a Volvo. I always thought they were meant to be safe?
NegativeLatency 9 minutes ago [-]
Old Volvo is different than new Volvo. They went downhill when and after ford bought them. Also the new cars lack the charm of the older 240s, they're sorta just regular luxury cars now.
Only recently sold my 850 because we're expecting a kid and wanted to mount the car seat correctly.
eckelhesten 2 hours ago [-]
Volvo sadly no longer stands for Swedish quality and safety.
What you’re buying is essentially an overpriced Chinese car with Volvo stickers.
And I’m saying this as a Swede. Buy German cars, specifically within the Volkswagen auto group (Audi, VW, Skoda etc) if you want reliable quality.
blueflow 2 hours ago [-]
> .... if you want reliable quality.
I'm saying this as a German, i strongly reject those accusations. Do not buy from VW group (and not from PSA/Stellantis (Citroen, Fiat, Opel etc brands), either).
nicce 2 hours ago [-]
What reliable is left?
runako 2 hours ago [-]
Toyota, Lexus, Subaru, Honda.
Not sure if Hyundai & Kia are quite as reliable, but if not it's on them because they have some of the best warranties in the industry.
prmph 1 hours ago [-]
Mazdas too. I find Toyota's suspensions and driving dynamics terrible. Mazda represents a perfect combination of good Japanese reliability and good handling dynamics. I also like that they still offer a proper automatic transmission in their cars (as opposed to the CVT epidemic in other makes), as well as naturally aspirated engine options (whereas many other makes only offer turbos now).
The days of their collaboration with Ford are long gone, and with it their body durability problems. They still collaborate with Toyota though.
tharkun__ 4 minutes ago [-]
The Corolla I was driving recently can definitely not be recommended. It was a rental.
Was a Hybrid, though that shouldn't affect this. It wouldn't save most of the settings I changed. Apparently you can either save it "to the key" (I googled how to do it, didn't work) or to your "profile" with a mobile app. I would never want to have to use my mobile to save car settings, even if I owned it, let alone a rental.
It has a feature that scans road signs and displays them on the dash. Awesome feature, which I've had in other cars before. Just in case you missed one and usually more accurate than Google maps for dynamic situations like construction zones. Unfortunately it loudly beeps and blinks at you if you happen to go over the limit or god forbid set the cruise control above the limit. This can be disabled individually but is part of the settings that don't save across car shutdowns.
Why is that an issue? Because setting the cruise control to 50 when in a 50km/h zone will have you driving 45 in reality as evidenced by speed measuring displays I drove by. At 100km/h you'll probably be going 90. I learned the 6 key presses on the steering wheel to disable this after starting the car real fast. Unfortunately it disables the entire feature (else it'd be a lot more key presses and I ain't doing that). If this wasn't a rental but a purchase I'd be in this guys boat and trying to return the car.
This is just one example. The other more dire one is the cruise control. I've mentioned it elsewhere before and this Corolla isn't the only one, but the automatic breaking in these cars nowadays is dangerous. The amount of time I was sitting in the car with my foot right above the accelerator in case I need to power through an automatic breaking situation was unreal.
bityard 50 minutes ago [-]
Maybe they are better now, but I had two Mazdas between about 2005 and 2015. They were fine for the most part, but their frames rusted out and had to be scrapped well before the rest of the car was worn out. They're not really suitable for long-term use in the midwestern/northeast US salt belt unless you're a high-roller who only leases cars.
prmph 41 minutes ago [-]
That's what I meant, those problems have been solved in recent years. Their partnership with Ford ended by 2015 at the latest
butlike 21 minutes ago [-]
Yessss. Happy to hear this. A Miata has been on the wishlist for a while now.
oxag3n 10 minutes ago [-]
Was loyal Honda owner since my 1st one in 00s, my current two will be the last I own. Purchased brand new, multiple issues with body/chassis & HVAC in Pilot, electrical systems/motors in Oddy. The dealership tried to fix things and did it unprofessionally.
01100011 20 minutes ago [-]
Not so sure about Subaru. I love my Outback but it is also the only car I've ever owned which left me stranded twice due to two separate firmware issues. Both issues were known and Subaru failed to communicate them to me.
I will probably go with Toyota for our next car despite loving the handling and comfort of our Subaru.
hedora 1 hours ago [-]
Our Kia is a deathtrap due to bad active safety assist software.
It's also miserable to drive because of beeping, controls that cannot be seen by the driver, and a dozen other obvious problems.
Supposedly Hyundai fixes such stuff before release, but I wouldn't risk it.
haunter 1 hours ago [-]
Acura too (Honda's premium brand)
PaulHoule 1 hours ago [-]
For a long time Consumer Reports has ranked cars as Japanese > American >> European, European cars have some luxury cachet but if you want a car that starts when you turn the key look elsewhere. American cars came a long way since the 1970s when they really were trash.
"European" cars are not really a category. French/Italian/Spanish cars are very different from German/Volvo, and even these groupings are a stretch. Then you have Dacia too, and I have no idea where to even put it. Plus you have some luxury British cars, which are again veery different.
In-group std is greater than between-group std.
burnerthrow008 21 minutes ago [-]
In the USA (where Consumer Reports exists), we don’t have any French or Spanish brands. Italian brands are only exotics and couple near-luxury brands from Stellantis.
To a USAian, “European Brand” means something from Germany or Scandinavia. If you mean a Ferrari or Lamborghini, you say that name.
PaulHoule 13 minutes ago [-]
There's Fiat, an Italian brand that I think of as terribly downmarket. I think it's part of Stellantis and I think if you Stellantis coming you're supposed to run, not walk away -- I guess Chrysler is still part of that, but Chrysler is also far worse than Ford and GM.
As for Ferrari and Lamborghini it doesn't matter what Consumer Reports thinks.
Malakun 26 minutes ago [-]
> Spanish cars are very different from German
The only spanish car maker is SEAT and it's part of VAG group. SEAT are more expensive than Skoda, but cheaper than Audi.
And using the country card with these automaker corporations is very tricky, because they have factories everywhere. You can buy an Audi made in Spain or a VW made in Slovakia.
Marsymars 1 hours ago [-]
Consumer Reports currently has Audi and BMW ahead of any American manufacturer.
Brand average reliability is tricky though, on their 100-point scale, their top manufacturer (Subaru) has models that range from 38-98.
Looking at the model breakdown... I kinda suspect they don’t really have enough datapoints - VW’s reliability only includes 3 models (the Tiguan, ID.4 and TAOS) - Ford has a 25-point difference between the Escape and Maverick hybrids that share the same engine/powertrain (I can’t think of any reason why the Maverick would actually be notably more reliable than the Escape unless the PHEV escape is dragging down weighted reliability by that much over the mild hybrid), etc.
SecretDreams 1 hours ago [-]
The two main Achilles Heels of Hyundai/Kia are their ICE Engines and their EV ICCUs. Google reliability for both and proceed accordingly. They're good about replacing/fixing both issues when they come up, and normally have extended warranties, but they are critical components too and long lead times to fix.
Outside of those issues, which don't happen on all vehicles, I view the brand as pretty rock solid. I'm impressed by how quickly they iterate, their styling, and their NVH attributes. Their pricing has crept up a bit, but still not terrible.
dzhiurgis 7 minutes ago [-]
Honorable mention - Hyundai Kona EV managed to build a reduction gear that blows around 100k km - just after warranty ends and they specifically recommend not changing the gear oil.
bityard 41 minutes ago [-]
I recently got rid of a 2016 Kia Sonata with a severe (and getting worse) oil burning issue. It was well under 100k miles. We really liked the car otherwise overall. Great price, seemed to be made well, easy to work on. The extended warranty on these only applies if you actually blow up engine, which I wasn't willing to do deliberately because I have scruples.
(And according to forum threads, at the time this happened to this us, stealerships were putting people on a 1-2 year waitlist for remanufactured engines, or straight-up totalling their vehicles and giving them "market value" for the car, and these models had awful resale value exactly due to these problems.)
7ganam 41 minutes ago [-]
I've owned my Hyundai Tucson for 5 years, and it hasn't had a single issue
formerly_proven 53 minutes ago [-]
It's weird that Toyota cars are taking top spots in car breakdown statistics the last couple years. Hyundai & Kia have their EVs breakdown left and right with their ICCU failures, and spare parts seem to be in rather short supply (and a replaced ICCU can fail again). And their battery warranty is only 5 years / 100 km.
decimalenough 40 minutes ago [-]
Believe it or not, both the software and hardware on Chinese-made Teslas is rock solid. (With the notable and massive exception of Autopilot/FSD, but this is an optional feature.) The Model 3 has been ranked the most reliable EV in Australia:
However, this is not the case for Teslas manufactured in the US, which is why Tesla's global reliability ratings are mediocre at best.
burnerthrow008 15 minutes ago [-]
It should be noted that “autopilot” is the included driver assist feature and “FSD” is the optional extra cost feature.
hnuser123456 2 hours ago [-]
Toyota
tannhaeuser 2 hours ago [-]
If you buy a Toyota ProAce van you get a Peugeot Expert aka Citroen Jumpy/Traveller aka the respective Fiat and Opel (and Vauxhall?) branded vehicles. It's a Volkswagen Transporter-sized van, not an Eurovan/minivan that still might be sold in EU only though.
pesus 1 hours ago [-]
I'd add Mazda in there (post Ford involvement).
2 hours ago [-]
slaw 1 hours ago [-]
> What reliable is left?
Vehicles with 7 or more years of warranty. If a brand has a hype, but short warranty like Toyota, it is only a hype.
DyslexicAtheist 1 hours ago [-]
idk but in addition to what was listed already stay away from: Land Rover, Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Fiat
... all of them leave you stranded in the middle of the road
Don't say "reliable", say "opportunity for enshittification".
DyslexicAtheist 2 hours ago [-]
if it has software it will be enshitted. sadly true
rectang 31 minutes ago [-]
I was a bit surprised to see the the "software" criteria in your reply, as I'd always thought of enshittification's inevitability as a capitalist phenomenon whereby a quality brand is wrung out for near term gains by management incentivized to get their cut before riding off into the sunset.
But after reading up a bit, I've found that software platform lock-in was important in enshittification's original formulation — it's not just that quality goes to crap, but that users have nowhere else to go.
dzhiurgis 5 minutes ago [-]
Thank you for that second paragraph. Really hate people throwing that word around without understanding what it actually means. Was about to get inflamed.
Makes you wonder how open software car platform could look like and why nobody is making one.
earthnail 2 hours ago [-]
BMW
theyinwhy 34 minutes ago [-]
Mercedes
breadwinner 2 hours ago [-]
I rented an Audi Q7 for a week recently. The drive quality of the car is excellent. But the software is terrible. Just getting CarPlay to work every time is a challenge. I will not be buying an Audi any time soon.
As more and more of the vehicle's experience becomes software controlled, manufacturers who don't have good software development teams are going to lose out. German companies don't seem to understand the growing importance of software, and they are happy to collectively develop the software [1] as opposed to seeing software as a key differentiator.
Software is indeed a differentiator, as in I want as little as possible of that shit in my car. Any car where all the controls are on a giant iPad in the middle are a non-starter for me.
ryandrake 10 minutes ago [-]
Physical goods companies just don't get software, and they never seem to be able to do it right. They treat firmware and software like just another line item on the BOM. Like a screw or a silicon gasket: Source it from a cheap supplier, spoon it into the product somewhere on the assembly line, and then never touch it again. As long as it meets a list of checkbox requirements, the quality doesn't matter at all. A car company that obsesses over how nicely the exterior panels fit together will, on the other hand, not even care whether icons and text are aligned on their software.
germinalphrase 2 hours ago [-]
The VW Group is putting billions into their partnership with Rivian specifically to improve the software experience (and enabling hardware). It may be the only thing that keeps Rivian alive until (if) the R2 successfully launches to the mass market.
daedrdev 2 hours ago [-]
Not even, BYD and other Chinese car companies make great, reliable cars. This is simply Volvo intentionally and likely knowingly cheating out as much as possible to make a quick buck, burning their brand in the process
thesz 2 hours ago [-]
> great, reliable cars
There was fuel tank burst open in cold weather overnight incident, sudden fires and explosions of (presumable hybrid) Chinese cars, etc. Chinese cars are not on market for time enough to even consider their reliability. Let's wait for ten years, at the very least.
The quality of ride of Chinese cars is not even close to their European counterparts, children get sick even on the front row in ten minutes in a car that costs next to $60K. Their suspension is such that they do not compensate for sudden roll when one side of car hits a bump or hole.
Rolls Royce made their Phantoms to have adjustable clearance so that Chinese buyers would not suffer from bad roads of China, yet all of the buyers of Chinese cars have to suffer from roads that are not ideally paved.
maxglute 50 minutes ago [-]
> quality of ride
Is this year 2000? Chinese cars are overwhelmingly tuned for much softer ride experience at expense of feeling performance / sporty. Especially 50k+ tier from last few years, most perform better than Euro cars in terms of noise, vibration harshness. You generally have to scrape to bottom barrel entry level 10-15k PRC cars to get bad ride experiences now. Chinese roads also great now, down to rural.
Quality's caught up since 2020s. Sure you can wait 10 years, but there's industry indicators like problems per 100 vehicles (PP100) where PRC EVs are fine / better than foreign bands (built in PRC factories. At least mechanically (power trains, batteries, chassis). Most PRC weakeness comes from stuff like infotainment, drive assist last few years because they've been iterating software a little too fast. There's also proprietary fleet data on EV taxis / rideshare that's been driven to death, and those hold up fine too.
Rolls Royce tuned their PRC cars to be EXTRA PLUSH, because PRC buyers prefers extra cloudy rides vs Euro buyers that prefers firmer / responsive, NA softer than EU, MENA somewhere between EU/NA.
Xenoamorphous 2 hours ago [-]
Aren’t Japanese cars the gold standard of reliability? Or has something changed?
caconym_ 2 hours ago [-]
Not only that, they also have a fairly conservative approach to design that seems to keep a lot of the stupid bullshit out of their cars. I own multiple late model Japanese cars from different manufacturers and have had zero issues with them. The ADAS systems they do have, while arguably basic by 2025 standards, function flawlessly. All essential controls (including climate control) are physical.
jorvi 2 hours ago [-]
To be honest, it has never been about pure brand. Every brand has had clunkers and has had great models.
Having said that, Toyota is known for their reliability, and Volvo (+ Polestar) was / are known for their safety.
Just to emphasize the point: Nissan is doomed because generally no one wants their cars, but they have perhaps one of the greatest bang-for-buck EVs outside of Chinese brands: the Leaf 2.
coderenegade 1 hours ago [-]
Nissan makes fantastic cars that develop a following, and then proceeds to change everything about the car that created a following in the first place. Mitsubishi seem to be learning this skill from them. Toyota still sells cars that have a direct lineage to the original model 40 years ago, and charges a fortune for them.
quickthrowman 17 minutes ago [-]
If they make such good cars, why are they writing so many subprime loans? In my opinion, they wouldn’t have to target subprime borrowers if they offered a good car.
I’d rather spend $2-3k more for a Toyota and get something reliable, a RAV4 is $2k more than a Rogue.
NewJazz 56 minutes ago [-]
Leaf doesn't have active cooling nor CCS... That's a big reason they have to price it like that. I'd rather take a Toyota busy forks in the current market. Chevy Equinox is pretty good bang for buck too.
api 2 hours ago [-]
I have a 2022 model Leaf, the one with 230 miles range, and it's... boring in a good way. It just works. Zero problems whatsoever and zero noticeable battery degradation after about 27K miles. Only big downside is poor rapid charging, but we use ours as a city car and rarely if ever need it.
Put a CCS fast charge port and better battery cooling in this thing and it'd be the perfect boring reliable EV with physical dash controls (no touch screen BS).
silverquiet 2 hours ago [-]
My girlfriend has the same car and I had about the same feeling in it - it's just a cheap Nissan that happens to be electric (and I mean that in a good way). As you said, quite good as a city car, and we even did a short road trip in it, but the lack of chargers for it does produce some range anxiety.
esseph 47 minutes ago [-]
I want my tools to be boring, do something and do it well, and with minimum fuss.
cptskippy 1 hours ago [-]
That's been my experience with a 2015 Leaf. It's ugly and the range is trash, and that it. It's a dolled up golf cart but in a good way.
New cars... but a 22 year old used Toyota, like mine, seems perfectly fine.
Sure, it'll kill me because of the comparative lack of safety, but that seems like a minor sacrifice in the face of needing to deal with a new car.
It also doesn't have pillars the thickness of an elephant's legs, like all new cars, significantly less compromising to visibility all around. It also lacks the now ubiquitous square and raised bonnet.
everybodyknows 2 hours ago [-]
Was told by a mechanic a few months back that continuously-variable transmissions are standard in gas cars now, but have reliability problems. Old-tech automatics can (could?) still be had from Toyota and Mazda.
Marsymars 57 minutes ago [-]
Note that the eCVT that Toyota/Ford (and soon Mazda) use in their hybrids is mechanically entirely different from classic CVTs.
vel0city 14 minutes ago [-]
Note that not all Ford hybrids are eCVTs. Hybrid Explorers don't have eCVTs, for example.
But Mavericks and some of their newer hybrids are eCVTs.
elabajaba 52 minutes ago [-]
E-CVTs are extremely reliable and are different from CVTs (CVTs use a belt attached to 2 cones, E-CVTs are just a single planetary gear set), but a lot of car guys and even some mechanics don't realize they're completely different.
nothercastle 2 hours ago [-]
Nah only Subaru and nisssan. 10 speed automatics are most common.
Marsymars 58 minutes ago [-]
Most Japanese manufacturers are moving pretty heavily to CVTs. (And Americans have a smattering of them across their lines.)
denysvitali 2 hours ago [-]
> Buy German cars
Take this with a grain of salt (since it's not first hand experience), but I have heard from friends that the quality of German cars has degraded significantly
cpursley 2 hours ago [-]
From their already dismal reliability and insane maintenance costs?
cpursley 2 hours ago [-]
Or just buy a Zeekr (if you want a non-Elon EV) - a much more technically impressive and better looking car than the Volvo or Tesla and it was designed in Europe:
That touch screen-only with the different modes of activation is my nightmare and literally giving me anxiety watching that showcase if that's to be the future of auto driving.
meepmorp 1 hours ago [-]
Interestingly, Zeeker is owned by the same Chinese parent company as Volvo, Geely auto.
cpursley 49 minutes ago [-]
Yeah, might as well get the real thing. That model has great reviews. Wish it were available in the US.
jay_kyburz 11 minutes ago [-]
Did we forget about the emissions cheating already? Volkswagen is on my blacklist.
dzhiurgis 9 minutes ago [-]
Yikes. Know any recent successful EVs from them?
fuzzy2 2 hours ago [-]
Reliable (consistent) quality, yes. Quality? Debatable. But it definitely keeps driving, no dangerous situations so far.
vinni2 1 hours ago [-]
Isn’t it Chinese owned now?
kazinator 2 hours ago [-]
No longer, as of when?
I had a 1987 Volvo 760 in the nineties.
It was an unmitigated piece of shit.
DyslexicAtheist 2 hours ago [-]
> Volvo sadly no longer stands for Swedish quality and safety.
which Swedish or EU companies do?
not a trick question - I'm genuinely baffled by systematic QA neglect in most EU based companies (which are still better than much US companies) .
jonplackett 43 minutes ago [-]
I’m already boycotting VW for emissions-fraud, Tesla for Nazi-salutes… gonna run out of car brands at this rate
tcshit 25 minutes ago [-]
i agree on that emission-fraud. but, haha, you know there are loads of videos of your favorite blue colored ones doing the same salute? if that is what keeps you spinning you ran out of car brands long time ago...
bestouff 2 hours ago [-]
I want to buy European but Bosh is so disappointing. They lock everything so you can't change anything on your EV by yourself. I hate that.
amoorthy 2 hours ago [-]
Insane that Volvo doesn't just replace the car. The cost is trivial compared to the brand damage here. The complaint is so well documented and the customer is not being a jerk at all; not sure what Volvo's logic is.
nicce 2 hours ago [-]
They would need to replace all faulty cars after that. They want to avoid that.
etskinner 2 hours ago [-]
They'll probably agree on a settlement where they don't admit any wrongdoing and give him a decent payout, but require him to take down the site and sign an NDA or something. So they don't necessarily need to replace all of them after that
If all he wants is a refund, that should do it. But if he's more interested in warning the world, hopefully he sticks to his guns and makes them give a straight up refund
amoorthy 55 minutes ago [-]
Ah you might be right. But:
1. If they really have so many faulty cars on the road that's a serious hazard and any accidents where people die may end up destroying Volvo entirely because of negligence.
2. An economically reasonable answer might be refund the guy making the complaint and ofter all other owners $10k credit towards your next Volvo purchase or free 3 years of maintenance and service. Something like this might be enough to stem the bleeding while protecting the brand.
thefourthchime 2 hours ago [-]
I'm guessing that's every car.
nicce 2 hours ago [-]
Exactly…
glonq 15 minutes ago [-]
If you're selling cars at that price tier ($150K CAD / $110K USD), you'd better be backing it with top-tier service.
jonplackett 28 minutes ago [-]
I’m just happier and happier with my ‘dumb’ car.
It has physical buttons for the aircon.
No wifi = no speakers listening to me and selling my personal data (yep that’s a thing)
I have to press a button on the key fob to open it so it can’t be stolen by relaying the signal.
It’s pretty cheap to run because I hardly drive anywhere anyway.
But when I do I just buy this stuff called ‘petrol’ that’s all around the place and takes like 30 seconds.
I also still get to feel smug because the environmental cost of producing a new electric car is WAY greater than the petrol I’m burning.
dreamcompiler 18 minutes ago [-]
> the environmental cost of producing a new electric car is WAY greater than the petrol I’m burning.
The environmental cost of producing an electric car happens once. But driving a car is an ongoing environmental insult. This is an apples/oranges comparison unless you integrate the driving damage over time.
This analysis suggests EVs are overall a win for the environment after 5 years of ownership, assuming your electricity comes from coal. If it comes from hydro or renewable sources, it's more like one year.
It doesn't take much driving for a new EV to balance out the environmental cost of harvesting, shipping, pumping, and burning all that petrol. As I understand it, about 20k km or 15k miles, on average.
moneycantbuy 2 hours ago [-]
I really want to like volvo, especially their plugin hybrids, but their bad reliability of late is a dealbreaker. No way I'm wasting my life in mechanic hell.
I'm patiently looking to upgrade from my great 2018 subaru forester xt touring, but nothing new seems much better.
650REDHAIR 2 hours ago [-]
Volvo hasn’t been a reliable brand since ~2000 when it was sold to Ford. Even less reliable when it was sold to Geely.
They’ve essentially skated by on brand recognition earned decades ago.
ssalka 2 hours ago [-]
FWIW I've had a 2006 S40 for the past 10 years and found it very reliable. But can't speak for their models since then
muro 2 hours ago [-]
Had a 2006 or so XC90, everything was great. Now driving a 2016 XC90, had one issue with the engine cooling, was repaired in a day, 0 issues otherwise.
cpursley 2 hours ago [-]
Engine cooling issue is a major flaw. Sold my Toyota with 300k miles on it - never a single mechanical issue other than regular wear and tear.
Marsymars 53 minutes ago [-]
How do you distinguish what’s “regular wear and tear”?
Genuinely curious, I recently sold my 14 year-old Ford Fiesta, and could arguably say the same thing, but I could imagine some people disagreeing.
quickthrowman 7 minutes ago [-]
Regular wear and tear to me is any maintenance/parts replacement of items on the maintenance schedule. If your engine or transmission blows up and needs rebuilding, that is not wear and tear.
Things like replacing the starter, alternator, timing belt, struts, springs, brake pads and discs, tires, wipers, air filters, exhaust piping (in salted road areas) I would consider to be ‘wear and tear’.
speed_spread 36 minutes ago [-]
Volvo S40 are rebranded Mitsubishi Carisma.
nosequel 2 hours ago [-]
I was so excited to get my S60 PHEV. Mechanically it is an amazing machine, great handling, great power, I rarely have to put gas in it. BUT. It is a nightmare with the technology.
Like most new cars, everything is tied into the center display/computer. It will crash while driving, which will remove all sound from your car, and I don't mean just the radio/spotify/whatever. You can be in mid-turn with your turn signal on and then just absolute quiet. It is so off-putting. Your blinker stops, you can't really tell your engine is on, and every screen just goes black. Thankfully I don't have a pure electric, so I my car still physically moves, but I really can't believe I haven't gotten in an accident when my screen crashes.
Thankfully I leased this vehicle, and I'm almost done with it, I honestly can't wait to turn it in.
drewg123 2 hours ago [-]
Pure electrics also work when the screen crashes. My Tesla behaves almost exactly as you describe. When the screen crashes / reboots, you loose all displays, all sound, signals, etc. But the car still drives.
m_fayer 1 hours ago [-]
I have a rock-solid but aging Kia niro phev and I love it.
I’m thinking of turning it in for an updated model, but the updated model has displays instead of actual gauges and indicator lights like the older niro, and that just makes my skin crawl. It should be damn near impossible for the gauges and indicators to blink out of existence, and reassurance about nothing-but-screens has not been forthcoming.
mysterydip 2 hours ago [-]
Yeah, had my XC90's center console crash/reboot in the middle of a highway drive, very disorienting and unnerving.
Workaccount2 2 hours ago [-]
I would hope that the center control computer is isolated from the actual drive computer in all these cars.
internet2000 2 hours ago [-]
That's a Chinese car maker for you.
addisonj 1 hours ago [-]
I had an ex90 on pre-order for a long time, placed it within the first ~30 days of it being open.
It looked to be (and is!) an absolutely beautiful vehicle and also seemed to be making choices in the hardware (lidar) that I hoped, would, eventually deliver a combination of safety and self-driving capabilities that would be unmatched. I was willing to pay a premium and knew that it would take some time for the self-driving to come to fruition, but figured it would be a capable vehicle until that point in time.
But dang, what a botched launch. Not only were there all these issues, which are insane to me that Volvo didn't have more people in social media / subreddit, but also from a financial perspective the car is just insanely hard to get into. Lease terms were absolutely terrible.
I ended up getting a Hyuandai Ioniq 9 and am really glad I went that direction. Yeah, it doesn't offer as much as a Tesla in terms of FSD, but it also has better build quality and interior quality nearly matching the Volvo. I like the styling (but I know some do not), and it has actual physical controls for the stuff I care about and the best heads up display I have used (favorite feature: you get photos of incoming caller). NACS is also great... but I can't bring myself to take 2 spots yet at superchargers.
mttch 2 hours ago [-]
I wouldn’t buy Tesla again but I’ve never experienced software issues in mine. Although some of the menus could be re-arranged for clarity, it’s otherwise clear and responsive. The app is great and the third party apps are even better. I’ve not heard positive things from VW or MG owners in terms of software either. Is there any good alternative to Tesla in this domain?
matthewfcarlson 2 hours ago [-]
I was recently shopping for a new car and looked at Volvo. We've had a Model Y for a few years now and when the Volvo salesperson proudly showed us how the truck height could be set by holding the button, I asked "is that a global setting or does it remember where it is when you set the height?"
The salesperson looked at me like I was crazy and confirmed it was global (the Y remembers what the proper height is at various locations using the GPS). It's frustrating to me that Teslas have fit and finish issues (though they get better) and there are some parts of it that I think are made cheaply (paint for example), but the software on the Tesla is miles ahead of anything else.
dreamcompiler 11 minutes ago [-]
I'd guess Rivian SW is good, because Volkswagen's SW got so bad they hired Rivian to rewrite it for them. (That contract is the only thing keeping Rivian afloat right now.)
kccqzy 1 hours ago [-]
The Rivian is nice in terms of software. Although it also doesn't support CarPlay just like the Tesla.
sixQuarks 2 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
fisherjeff 52 minutes ago [-]
> inferior products
That’s just, like, your opinion, man
> You just don’t hear about the other ones
If we’re not hearing about them, they must be doing a great job suppressing their inner white supremacist. Keep it up guys!
stickfigure 59 minutes ago [-]
Whether or not that is true (I suspect you just made that up), no other businessman alive in America has made politics such a part of their personal brand.
pbasista 1 hours ago [-]
> You just don’t hear about the other ones.
That is possible, yes. I think it is a fair point.
But I also understand that people want to somehow publicly show their opinions about Elon Musk. Or others.
For some, a public social media post is enough. Others want to do so with their wallet. Which, unlike a typical person's social media post, has the potential of catching, albeit indirectly, Elon Musk's attention. Which is their goal.
So I would not dismiss or make fun of the people who want to do it this way. I would not call it "virtue signaling" either if it is done with a genuine goal to publicly point out that some of Elon Musk's opinions are problematic or even dangerous.
These people are most likely not doing it because they want to "look like" they have a problem with such opinions. They do it because they genuinely believe that such opinions are harmful.
joyeuse6701 49 minutes ago [-]
This comment is a hilarious virtue signal of its own.
kelnos 1 hours ago [-]
It's one thing to have terrible political views. It's quite another to join the government and lead a crusade to (illegally?) slash and burn government agencies.
And while it's not ok to have terrible views, I can at least summon a token minimal level of respect for someone who keeps quiet about them, vs. someone who needs to yell them over and over, as loud as possible, for everyone to hear.
ardillamorris 18 minutes ago [-]
I have an XC90 but the hybrid that is not plug in. I can say that the software is complete trash. The screen often goes black. I’ve had to replace twice parts that made the entertainment system dead. My second car is a model Y and now I dread driving the Volvo. It’s bigger so we use it to go to the cottage but other than that, I wish I had something different.
hurrrr 2 hours ago [-]
The best cars were built between 2000 and 2010. Pretty much the pinnacle of the internal combustion engine without all the millions of lines of buggy code that apparently no longer allow you to open your car freely.
mandevil 2 hours ago [-]
In ~2005 I worked with a world-renowned expert on industrial automation and computer control of machines. He drove a 1989 Mercedes 300 sedan with a manual transmission, which he claimed was the last car made with no software in it at all. These two facts are not un-related.
calvinmorrison 1 hours ago [-]
By the 80s electronics were common with fuel injection, but I consider them more like factory controllers than what we call a computer. They're little 8080 variants running closed loops and activating or deactivating output pins
MontgomeryPy 1 hours ago [-]
Yes (and tip of the hat to my fellow 00s Saab owners!)
1970-01-01 2 hours ago [-]
The open secret to EV ownership is to lease. This effectively mitigates depreciation and forces a dealership to own any problems (sooner rather than later).
iwanttocomment 2 hours ago [-]
The open secret to EV ownership is to buy after the lease. The depreciation is insane, why pay to rent the car for three years when you can buy it outright after the lease return for a fraction of the cost? EVs with active cooling systems last just about forever but people are still "oh no the battery".
(Still driving my 2012 EV - not a typo - and got a can't-miss off-lease CPO deal on a "new" 2022 this year.)
bryanlarsen 2 hours ago [-]
High mileage EV's are really cheap right now. Buyers think they'll have to spend a fortune to replace the battery when in reality those batteries still have lots of miles left in them. People are picking up 150,000 mile model 3's for $10K, and that car could be good for another 150,000 miles.
bsder 1 hours ago [-]
> The open secret to EV ownership is to buy after the lease.
How do you dig into this responsibly?
I really don't want to be buying a new car right now as the ICE ones all seem to be expensive trash but the EVs are changing so quickly that it isn't worth it.
My Chevy Volt is beginning to show its age, but you will pry it from my cold, dead hands at this point.
iwanttocomment 10 minutes ago [-]
Three years is plenty of time to assess the reliability of a make and model - and also to get early issues resolved. Take a look at the forums.
As the owner of both a 2012 BEV and a 2014 PHEV (in addition to my "new" 2022), all of which are in perfect mechanical condition, it's tough to look at BEV technology as something that will "greatly improve".
Is my 2022 BEV way better than my 2012? Sure, but it's an entire decade removed (my 2012 is looking like... well, whatever the dog did to it). Is it worse than current 2025/26 BEVs? No, not by much at all.
Keep on rockin' with the Volt until your dog rips up the upholstery. There'll be a three year old off-lease BEV or PHEV waiting for you at a shocking low price when it's time.
kccqzy 1 hours ago [-]
Leasing will require you to carry comprehensive and collision insurance. With a fully owned car like mine, I carry only the liability insurance. This in practice more than halves my insurance premium payments. The reduction in insurance premium more than offsets any financial benefit of a lease with an artificially high residual value. (Leases are only beneficial because the residual value does not match reality.)
BillinghamJ 53 minutes ago [-]
Interestingly, in the UK, comprehensive insurance is now generally cheaper than "third party only" or "third party, fire & theft" cover
The reason is because the insurance companies want you to care about the car as an asset, on the basis that statistically they are driven more carefully (and therefore cause less third party property damage, bodily injury, etc.)
Workaccount2 2 hours ago [-]
This is compounded by the fact that EV tech is rapidly improving, fueling depreciation. It's like personal computers in the 90's/00's.
Compare to gas cars which is a very mature technology, and really only perks and features get updated.
germinalphrase 50 minutes ago [-]
Are they rapidly improving though?
Sure, other companies are making an effort to catch up with Tesla on autonomous driving, but range/speed/price are largely stagnant.
Mostly, it looks like every company (in the US/EU)is in shambles releasing half baked EVs hoping no one will notice that their hardware company is terrible at software.
Marsymars 2 hours ago [-]
That works if you want an EV just because you prefer to drive an EV, but makes it basically impossible to save money compared to buying an ICEV, you’ll never pay off the car, and you can’t put enough mileage on a lease to break even with fuel costs.
efitz 2 hours ago [-]
Doesn’t Canada have a lemon law? Most US states have a law that says if you have to bring a new car in 3 times for the same issue in the first X months of ownership, that they have to accept a return and refund you, or give you a new one.
ethan_smith 2 hours ago [-]
Canada doesn't have specific "lemon laws" like the US - instead, consumers must rely on provincial consumer protection acts, manufacturer warranties, or the Canadian Motor Vehicle Arbitration Plan (CAMVAP) for resolving persistent vehicle defects.
qualeed 2 hours ago [-]
No, Quebec does but other provinces just rely on standard consumer protection laws. At least the last time I looked into it.
I think some provinces have some additional vehicle-specific laws, but no comprehensive "lemon law" as such.
loloquwowndueo 2 hours ago [-]
This person is in Quebec (or seems to be - highway 13 is in Montreal and the car was bought in the city of Mount Royal which is a suburb of Montreal (city status nitpicks notwithstanding, it’s unequivocally in Quebec). )
qualeed 2 hours ago [-]
Good catch, I didn't put 2 and 2 together. I'm not positive what the eligibility requirements are to invoke it. Perhaps that's what they retained the lawyer for.
eeks 2 hours ago [-]
I have the exact same experience with an EX30. Their entire line of full EVs is a disaster. I will never buy a Volvo again.
joezydeco 2 hours ago [-]
I own an XC40 BEV (now renamed EX40) and it's a much better car. The SPA platform was pretty mature by that point.
I sat in an EX90 demonstrator a year ago at the dealer and was told not to touch anything inside the cabin. The car wasn't ready back then and, from reading owners forums now, it's still not fully baked.
germinalphrase 2 hours ago [-]
The Polestar 2/EX40 probably have the most mature software of that lineup. Not without issues (and certainly underpowered pre-‘24), but relatively stable by comparison.
I don’t understand the logic of having each Polestar model running a unique software stack rather than progressively improving one system across all models - but must be a downstream impact of the fractured Geely badges.
Havoc 1 hours ago [-]
>Find a place to stop and select P to park. When parked, the system will restart.
Oh I know how to fix this one. Format windows partition and install linux
mrcwinn 2 hours ago [-]
Similar experience with Polestar 3. Really great sales and client advisors, but truly an awful experience with the car. I demanded an early lease return and they accepted.
afloatboat 1 hours ago [-]
Sad to hear that about the PS3, seeing how long it took them to go to market.
Been driving a Polestar 2 for nearly 4 years now and while it’s not a disastrous experience it could be a lot better. Things have improved over the years, but still pretty disappointed.
The infotainment system runs on a very outdated atom chip that’s too slow for Android Automotive. Constant frame drops, crashes or stuff just generally not working.
In a recent software update they disabled the cockpit view if you put it in reverse, just to save on resources.
The whole Android Automotive thing is worthless. There are barely any apps and when they finally released YouTube after 2 years it was just a buggy wrapper around the mobile web view. Most videos will just display a green screen due to lack of codec support, so I just pull out my phone now when I’m charging. But even the radio or Spotify fail to play half of the time.
The 360 degree camera sometimes will just not work. I still have a tiny back window, unlike the Polestar 4, but the reverse lights are so tiny and dim that it’s impossible to see anything when reversing at night.
Digital Key works, but also have to regularly pull out my phone to trigger it or manually press the button in the app. If you’re in a parking garage without internet you’re simply not getting into the car. And that’s without the random logouts.
Lane assist works relatively well, if it weren’t for the constant nagging to put your hands on the wheel even if you’re lightly tugging it. I need to really jerk it a bit before it stops beeping at me, making it completely useless.
Maintenance happens at the Volvo dealership where they made sure to make me feel like a second class citizen for not leasing a Volvo. They didn’t read my reservation mentioning the broken rain sensor, ensuring I had to return a week later for them to replace it because they didn’t have the part in stock.
I was between a model 3 and this car initially. Mainly because of the software, and for that reason I still regret not going for the M3, but given the current situation I’m happier driving the PS2.
Nearly 4 years in the chipset is still the same for the newer model.
theyinwhy 9 minutes ago [-]
Oh believe me, model 3 is a piece of garbage. Mine started to creak after 20k miles. 2 months after repairs the car started to creak again. I am talking loud, embarassing creaks like old barn doors. Repair costs were so high my insurance company canceled. I will never ever own a Tesla again.
Btw it's funny how people complain about auto pilot. At least you can disable auto pilot, making it the last problem to worry about with those trash cans.
bobmcnamara 2 hours ago [-]
$150kCAD for a discount Chinese car?
rwmj 2 hours ago [-]
But with an old, formerly quality badge attached!
2 hours ago [-]
allenrb 1 hours ago [-]
New cars are a fool’s game for most people, imho. Unless you just insist on having the newest thing, they rarely make sense. Couple that with the relentless electronic gadgetry and phone-home surveillance and I may never own a car produced after ~2020. Our current stable:
2007 Mazdaspeed 3, just keeps going. All buttons, no screens.
2016 Porsche Cayman, one small multifunction screen, display only, no touch. Buttons for the very few “features” present on the car.
2016 Ford Transit Connect. 200k miles. Just goes. One small screen, doesn’t interfere with anything critical.
Marsymars 43 minutes ago [-]
> New cars are a fool’s game for most people, imho.
I’d have agreed with you in the past, but I just bought a new car for the first time. I wanted a compact pickup - there were basically none produced for a decade from 2012-2022 - the ones from before this gap are questionable safety-wise, and now either are falling apart from rust, or going for a hefty premium because there aren’t many enthusiast-maintained rust-free models for sale. The post 2022 ones for sale just don’t have enough of a discount off new models to be worth buying unless.
mrcwinn 44 minutes ago [-]
This is just a silly statement. Your 2007, 2016, and 2016 vehicles were all new cars in 2007, 2016, and 2016.
There are plenty of 2020-era cars that are, so far, remarkably reliable and cheap to maintain and repair. It's simply that Volvo and Polestar are quite bad at making vehicles.
tnolet 2 hours ago [-]
This is painful. Anecdotal point: I have an 2024 EX40 and it’s been perfect.
internet2000 2 hours ago [-]
For now.
Guillaume86 51 minutes ago [-]
Same experience here with a 2024 EX40, happy I did some research before buying (EX30 was looking nice at first). The EX40 is just another iteration of a mature platform, while the EX30/90 are new and still full of bugs apparently... It shows in the central console that looks dated but at least it works and I still have buttons for basic functionnality.
butlike 23 minutes ago [-]
Ok. I'm starting to think that the touch displays should have a common interface codified into law. The fact that these interfaces, with no tactile feedback can be completely different softwares with UIs is alarming and dangerous to me.
chaosprint 33 minutes ago [-]
The better I become at system programming the more scared I become about current systems
wmeredith 2 hours ago [-]
Yikes. Hitting them where it hurts. Safe and predictable is Volvo's brand.
yrcyrc 2 hours ago [-]
Had a new Kia for the past five years and there were no issues apart from a speaker replaced under warranty.
I cannot trust PSA, Renault, Stellantis or any other brands anymore. (Takata airbags)
As for those flagships from renowned brands, it feels like a trend. I ‘did’ trust Volvo but won’t anymore. The way it was handled is particularly poor.
neogodless 2 hours ago [-]
As a Polestar 2 (closely related to Volvo; they share a lot of components and infotainment software... bugs) owner, none of this surprises me.
I've had the "Complete Center Screen Malfunction" issue on my Polestar 2 (though an infotainment reboot "fixed" it.
But climate controls disappearing and climate shutting off during infotainment reboots is already pretty atrocious.
I have the "backup camera unavailable" issue, and despite multiple recalls and attempts to fix in software... the issue persists.
There are other issues, but none as bad as he's seen with his EX90!
vultour 2 hours ago [-]
These problems plague so many new cars it's incredible. I know people who don't want to buy a new Mercedes S-class, but are instead looking for low-mileage units of the previous generation because it has the same issues. I don't know what the fuck is going on with cars these last few years but the manufacturers need to wake up.
nicce 2 hours ago [-]
> climate shutting off
In general, climate shutting off is safety issue too. In -40C it is not many minutes until you can’t see through windows.
owenthejumper 2 hours ago [-]
I mean, the issues with this car are pretty well documented, so it feels like this person is really using the website (and the HN exposure, successfully), to extract the refund from Volvo that they need want. Likely rightfully so, since the ex90 subreddit is full of people invoking lemon law successfully.
bestouff 2 hours ago [-]
I don't know. Apparently he's using a law firm to receive its refund. The HN exposure seems to be there just to ... expose the facts to the public. Looks more like a sort of revenge/public safety announcement to me (saying "don't buy Volvo").
It feels like Volvo is stuck in a sort of a cargo cult like situation. Modern car has to be software defined, so let's define the car by software. Except one of the reddit posts claims Volvo outsourced the development to Infosys. With predictable results...
2 hours ago [-]
websap 1 hours ago [-]
Thanks for documenting your experience, I would not buy a Volvo ever.
dzhiurgis 13 minutes ago [-]
Shame, I hear the reviews say it's such a nice car. But looking at those screenshots I'll refuse to buy anything else until software matches Tesla. 90% of car features is software now and buying anything else than Tesla (or Rivian) is just asking for trouble.
theturtle 1 hours ago [-]
The last truly good volvo was manufactured around 1992. There are lots of them around still.
xenadu02 2 hours ago [-]
Our leased 2024 Kia EV9 has similar terrible software problems.
Anyone who thinks Tesla's Autopilot/FSD (or any aspect of their software) is bad... much of the competition is far worse.
A few issues:
* Lane keeping gets dangerously close to other cars in turns for no apparent reason
* Lane keeping will randomly decide to follow non-existent lanes
* You can't turn off lane assist (the baby version of lane keeping) and it tries to override you, leading to jerking of the steering wheel at high speed (eg to avoid an obstacle in the road).
* When switching from R to D it wants you to press the brake. But if you are still moving a tiny bit or you don't press the brake hard enough it just shifts you into N instead (!!). I live on a hill and this is only detected when I press the accelerator pedal and nothing happens. But you have to come to a full stop to shift into D (Why???).
* Some settings refuse to save to driver profile; to get single pedal driving you must use the paddle shifters each driving session to go from iDrive 3 to Max. But if you are moving too fast it refuses to change the mode. If you set the mode in R it resets when you move to D.
* Despite being an EV with key/digital key detection you must manually press the ON button and manually press the Off button. Otherwise when you get out of the car it just sits there ready to be driven away by a thief.
* No auto-lock when walking away.
* Remember the pedal thing from shifting? Same with pressing ON button. If you don't press the brake pedal down hard enough or give it 1-2 seconds before pressing ON it just turns on accessory mode.
* No geofencing so no ability to configure anything to behave differently at home.
* Want to control the charge plug locking behavior? Don't bother going to Settings. You won't find it. You must go to the home page, then press the EV Leaf box. Then go to EV Settings from here. There you will find a new settings menu that has the same ones from Settings but it now has a couple of new categories not present with all the other settings of the car. Including whether to lock the charge port door and whether to lock the charge cable into the car itself.
* Sometimes in following cruise control mode it just locks in at a speed different from the one you set for no reason.
* When you touch the accelerator in cruise it turns cruise off so when you let off the accelerator the car actually jerks you around as it decelerates for a period of time before cruise kicks back in lurching you forward.
* Don't press the accelerator for too long or it will just turn cruise control off entirely, including lane keeping.
* It wants your hands on the steering wheel but if you move too much it turns off lane keeping but leaves cruise control on.
* It has the usual massive plethora of physical buttons randomly scattered throughout the cabin. Some on the center console. Some on the three stalks. Some on the left side where you can't see them. Some below the touch screen.
* Different controls behave differently. Sometimes next to each other with similar functions! Opening the rear door? Press and hold. Open the frunk? Double tap the button. The buttons are next to each other. The buttons below the touch screen? Capacitive it seems. Why when the rest are physical?
* Despite the cluster being just a huge LCD they do almost nothing with it. The only customizations are for-pay add-ons.
* Did I mention the light-up squares on the front are customizable? If you pay for them. Each pattern is an add-on you pay for.
* Their app is an absolute disaster. I could do an entire post just about how awful every aspect of it is.
hedora 8 minutes ago [-]
We have all these problems with our EV9 and more. It's almost caused multple accidents. They should have to recall + crush 100% of these, or release a massive software overhaul as part of a recall.
Recently, it's started turning itself on when you get out of the driver seat, and sometimes the power windows decide to operate themselves. I'm guessing it's only going to get worse over time. (There was recently a big software update, and those two issues started after they pushed it out.)
jmcphers 1 hours ago [-]
I own a Kia EV6 and am generally happy with it (especially compared to most peoples' experiences with their EVs), but most of this is true.
The only one that really drives me nuts is the lane-keeping feature, which cannot even follow clearly marked lanes in broad daylight. I don't know that I've ever had it go for more than 15s without disengaging on its own, and forget following even a gentle curve.
1970-01-01 2 hours ago [-]
This is the most beautiful complaint I've ever seen!
IshKebab 2 hours ago [-]
I wish he knew how quotation worked though... that was confusing to read.
throw7 2 hours ago [-]
I'm sorry, but if a car I ordered took over a year to be delivered and they couldn't even get the configuration correct I'd just say no.
blindriver 2 hours ago [-]
Does Canada not have Lemon laws that force the company to take back the car after a certain number of defects?
qualeed 2 hours ago [-]
Only Quebec has a specific "lemon law". Which this person appears to be in Quebec, so it may be applicable -- I'm not positive about the eligibility requirements to invoke it.
jjkmk 2 hours ago [-]
Sorry you have to deal with this, what a nightmare, hopefully you're able to get your money back.
annoyingnoob 2 hours ago [-]
Geely has been terrible for Volvo. Geely took a quality brand and removed the quality.
brookst 2 hours ago [-]
Ford did most of the heavy lifting, but Geely finished the job.
calvinmorrison 2 hours ago [-]
never buy a first or second year car, simple as, especially not a 'luxury' cutting edge brand.
calvinmorrison 2 hours ago [-]
I hope this site outlasts Volvo, and that this sign outlasts BoA
How did you determine "rightly"? Do you have additional information that wasn't disclosed in the post?
mr90210 2 hours ago [-]
Did you know that cars are meant to last far more than 1200km?
(I am just matching your stance)
peterpost2 2 hours ago [-]
How does Volvo's boot taste?
loloquwowndueo 2 hours ago [-]
Nice AI-generated site.
exiguus 2 hours ago [-]
Elon, is this you?
Serious, is there evidence that this is happening an all EX90 models?
And what does a lawyer say in such cases? Normally, $90,000 cars are leased. When does the special termination apply?
Rendered at 22:44:03 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
The site is very nice and pretty thorough.
Makes me not want to get this car or any Volvo!
“Analysis of Volvo's Final Response: This response … confirms Volvo's complete abandonment of customer responsibility…This is Volvo's definition of ‘customer care’ in 2025.”
“Center Display Failure - Critical Interface Blackout: Main Controls Inaccessible”
“Climate Control Malfunction - Climate System Override: Controls Unresponsive Despite Interface Status”
“Complete Center Screen Malfunction - Total System Breakdown: Hard Reset Failed to Restore Screen”
I know little about Volvo or this case; I’m choosing to offer them some benefits of doubt. Comms and decision making are prone to break down on the corporate ladder. Volvo had no doubt fumbled his case badly but I’m not convinced it is indicative of the company’s overall customer support policy. Sure, the main touchscreen had failed. But how is this an “override” of HVAC or a “total system breakdown”? And what’s the “system” anyways? On top of all that, these subtitle summaries smell like AI.
I don’t deny that Volvo has a lot to answer for. Though the choice of these instigating descriptions might not be the best one giving the author is actively pursuing litigation.
> But how is this an “override” of HVAC or a “total system breakdown”?
Complete failure of the throttle would fall within total system breakdown to me.
> Comms and decision making are prone to break down on the corporate ladder.
Businesses do not deserve the benefit of the doubt, they aren't human. If their support ladder broke down to this point that it is fair game to name and shame and up to them to do a PR push and fix their support.
It seem they are the exact opposite of what I thought.
Hey Volvo, I’ll now never buy a Volvo. I always thought they were meant to be safe?
Only recently sold my 850 because we're expecting a kid and wanted to mount the car seat correctly.
What you’re buying is essentially an overpriced Chinese car with Volvo stickers.
And I’m saying this as a Swede. Buy German cars, specifically within the Volkswagen auto group (Audi, VW, Skoda etc) if you want reliable quality.
I'm saying this as a German, i strongly reject those accusations. Do not buy from VW group (and not from PSA/Stellantis (Citroen, Fiat, Opel etc brands), either).
Not sure if Hyundai & Kia are quite as reliable, but if not it's on them because they have some of the best warranties in the industry.
The days of their collaboration with Ford are long gone, and with it their body durability problems. They still collaborate with Toyota though.
Was a Hybrid, though that shouldn't affect this. It wouldn't save most of the settings I changed. Apparently you can either save it "to the key" (I googled how to do it, didn't work) or to your "profile" with a mobile app. I would never want to have to use my mobile to save car settings, even if I owned it, let alone a rental.
It has a feature that scans road signs and displays them on the dash. Awesome feature, which I've had in other cars before. Just in case you missed one and usually more accurate than Google maps for dynamic situations like construction zones. Unfortunately it loudly beeps and blinks at you if you happen to go over the limit or god forbid set the cruise control above the limit. This can be disabled individually but is part of the settings that don't save across car shutdowns.
Why is that an issue? Because setting the cruise control to 50 when in a 50km/h zone will have you driving 45 in reality as evidenced by speed measuring displays I drove by. At 100km/h you'll probably be going 90. I learned the 6 key presses on the steering wheel to disable this after starting the car real fast. Unfortunately it disables the entire feature (else it'd be a lot more key presses and I ain't doing that). If this wasn't a rental but a purchase I'd be in this guys boat and trying to return the car.
This is just one example. The other more dire one is the cruise control. I've mentioned it elsewhere before and this Corolla isn't the only one, but the automatic breaking in these cars nowadays is dangerous. The amount of time I was sitting in the car with my foot right above the accelerator in case I need to power through an automatic breaking situation was unreal.
I will probably go with Toyota for our next car despite loving the handling and comfort of our Subaru.
It's also miserable to drive because of beeping, controls that cannot be seen by the driver, and a dozen other obvious problems.
Supposedly Hyundai fixes such stuff before release, but I wouldn't risk it.
In-group std is greater than between-group std.
To a USAian, “European Brand” means something from Germany or Scandinavia. If you mean a Ferrari or Lamborghini, you say that name.
As for Ferrari and Lamborghini it doesn't matter what Consumer Reports thinks.
The only spanish car maker is SEAT and it's part of VAG group. SEAT are more expensive than Skoda, but cheaper than Audi.
And using the country card with these automaker corporations is very tricky, because they have factories everywhere. You can buy an Audi made in Spain or a VW made in Slovakia.
Brand average reliability is tricky though, on their 100-point scale, their top manufacturer (Subaru) has models that range from 38-98.
Looking at the model breakdown... I kinda suspect they don’t really have enough datapoints - VW’s reliability only includes 3 models (the Tiguan, ID.4 and TAOS) - Ford has a 25-point difference between the Escape and Maverick hybrids that share the same engine/powertrain (I can’t think of any reason why the Maverick would actually be notably more reliable than the Escape unless the PHEV escape is dragging down weighted reliability by that much over the mild hybrid), etc.
Outside of those issues, which don't happen on all vehicles, I view the brand as pretty rock solid. I'm impressed by how quickly they iterate, their styling, and their NVH attributes. Their pricing has crept up a bit, but still not terrible.
(And according to forum threads, at the time this happened to this us, stealerships were putting people on a 1-2 year waitlist for remanufactured engines, or straight-up totalling their vehicles and giving them "market value" for the car, and these models had awful resale value exactly due to these problems.)
https://www.shopforcars.com.au/news/most-reliable-electric-c...
However, this is not the case for Teslas manufactured in the US, which is why Tesla's global reliability ratings are mediocre at best.
Vehicles with 7 or more years of warranty. If a brand has a hype, but short warranty like Toyota, it is only a hype.
https://www.stellantis.com/en/brands
But after reading up a bit, I've found that software platform lock-in was important in enshittification's original formulation — it's not just that quality goes to crap, but that users have nowhere else to go.
Makes you wonder how open software car platform could look like and why nobody is making one.
As more and more of the vehicle's experience becomes software controlled, manufacturers who don't have good software development teams are going to lose out. German companies don't seem to understand the growing importance of software, and they are happy to collectively develop the software [1] as opposed to seeing software as a key differentiator.
[1] https://www.electrive.com/2025/06/25/automotive-industry-lau...
The quality of ride of Chinese cars is not even close to their European counterparts, children get sick even on the front row in ten minutes in a car that costs next to $60K. Their suspension is such that they do not compensate for sudden roll when one side of car hits a bump or hole.
Rolls Royce made their Phantoms to have adjustable clearance so that Chinese buyers would not suffer from bad roads of China, yet all of the buyers of Chinese cars have to suffer from roads that are not ideally paved.
Is this year 2000? Chinese cars are overwhelmingly tuned for much softer ride experience at expense of feeling performance / sporty. Especially 50k+ tier from last few years, most perform better than Euro cars in terms of noise, vibration harshness. You generally have to scrape to bottom barrel entry level 10-15k PRC cars to get bad ride experiences now. Chinese roads also great now, down to rural.
Quality's caught up since 2020s. Sure you can wait 10 years, but there's industry indicators like problems per 100 vehicles (PP100) where PRC EVs are fine / better than foreign bands (built in PRC factories. At least mechanically (power trains, batteries, chassis). Most PRC weakeness comes from stuff like infotainment, drive assist last few years because they've been iterating software a little too fast. There's also proprietary fleet data on EV taxis / rideshare that's been driven to death, and those hold up fine too.
Rolls Royce tuned their PRC cars to be EXTRA PLUSH, because PRC buyers prefers extra cloudy rides vs Euro buyers that prefers firmer / responsive, NA softer than EU, MENA somewhere between EU/NA.
Having said that, Toyota is known for their reliability, and Volvo (+ Polestar) was / are known for their safety.
Just to emphasize the point: Nissan is doomed because generally no one wants their cars, but they have perhaps one of the greatest bang-for-buck EVs outside of Chinese brands: the Leaf 2.
I’d rather spend $2-3k more for a Toyota and get something reliable, a RAV4 is $2k more than a Rogue.
Put a CCS fast charge port and better battery cooling in this thing and it'd be the perfect boring reliable EV with physical dash controls (no touch screen BS).
Sure, it'll kill me because of the comparative lack of safety, but that seems like a minor sacrifice in the face of needing to deal with a new car.
It also doesn't have pillars the thickness of an elephant's legs, like all new cars, significantly less compromising to visibility all around. It also lacks the now ubiquitous square and raised bonnet.
But Mavericks and some of their newer hybrids are eCVTs.
Take this with a grain of salt (since it's not first hand experience), but I have heard from friends that the quality of German cars has degraded significantly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvnZ0mTCBng
I had a 1987 Volvo 760 in the nineties.
It was an unmitigated piece of shit.
which Swedish or EU companies do?
not a trick question - I'm genuinely baffled by systematic QA neglect in most EU based companies (which are still better than much US companies) .
If all he wants is a refund, that should do it. But if he's more interested in warning the world, hopefully he sticks to his guns and makes them give a straight up refund
1. If they really have so many faulty cars on the road that's a serious hazard and any accidents where people die may end up destroying Volvo entirely because of negligence.
2. An economically reasonable answer might be refund the guy making the complaint and ofter all other owners $10k credit towards your next Volvo purchase or free 3 years of maintenance and service. Something like this might be enough to stem the bleeding while protecting the brand.
It has physical buttons for the aircon.
No wifi = no speakers listening to me and selling my personal data (yep that’s a thing)
I have to press a button on the key fob to open it so it can’t be stolen by relaying the signal.
It’s pretty cheap to run because I hardly drive anywhere anyway.
But when I do I just buy this stuff called ‘petrol’ that’s all around the place and takes like 30 seconds.
I also still get to feel smug because the environmental cost of producing a new electric car is WAY greater than the petrol I’m burning.
The environmental cost of producing an electric car happens once. But driving a car is an ongoing environmental insult. This is an apples/oranges comparison unless you integrate the driving damage over time.
This analysis suggests EVs are overall a win for the environment after 5 years of ownership, assuming your electricity comes from coal. If it comes from hydro or renewable sources, it's more like one year.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/when-d...
I'm patiently looking to upgrade from my great 2018 subaru forester xt touring, but nothing new seems much better.
They’ve essentially skated by on brand recognition earned decades ago.
Genuinely curious, I recently sold my 14 year-old Ford Fiesta, and could arguably say the same thing, but I could imagine some people disagreeing.
Things like replacing the starter, alternator, timing belt, struts, springs, brake pads and discs, tires, wipers, air filters, exhaust piping (in salted road areas) I would consider to be ‘wear and tear’.
Like most new cars, everything is tied into the center display/computer. It will crash while driving, which will remove all sound from your car, and I don't mean just the radio/spotify/whatever. You can be in mid-turn with your turn signal on and then just absolute quiet. It is so off-putting. Your blinker stops, you can't really tell your engine is on, and every screen just goes black. Thankfully I don't have a pure electric, so I my car still physically moves, but I really can't believe I haven't gotten in an accident when my screen crashes.
Thankfully I leased this vehicle, and I'm almost done with it, I honestly can't wait to turn it in.
I’m thinking of turning it in for an updated model, but the updated model has displays instead of actual gauges and indicator lights like the older niro, and that just makes my skin crawl. It should be damn near impossible for the gauges and indicators to blink out of existence, and reassurance about nothing-but-screens has not been forthcoming.
It looked to be (and is!) an absolutely beautiful vehicle and also seemed to be making choices in the hardware (lidar) that I hoped, would, eventually deliver a combination of safety and self-driving capabilities that would be unmatched. I was willing to pay a premium and knew that it would take some time for the self-driving to come to fruition, but figured it would be a capable vehicle until that point in time.
But dang, what a botched launch. Not only were there all these issues, which are insane to me that Volvo didn't have more people in social media / subreddit, but also from a financial perspective the car is just insanely hard to get into. Lease terms were absolutely terrible.
I ended up getting a Hyuandai Ioniq 9 and am really glad I went that direction. Yeah, it doesn't offer as much as a Tesla in terms of FSD, but it also has better build quality and interior quality nearly matching the Volvo. I like the styling (but I know some do not), and it has actual physical controls for the stuff I care about and the best heads up display I have used (favorite feature: you get photos of incoming caller). NACS is also great... but I can't bring myself to take 2 spots yet at superchargers.
The salesperson looked at me like I was crazy and confirmed it was global (the Y remembers what the proper height is at various locations using the GPS). It's frustrating to me that Teslas have fit and finish issues (though they get better) and there are some parts of it that I think are made cheaply (paint for example), but the software on the Tesla is miles ahead of anything else.
That’s just, like, your opinion, man
> You just don’t hear about the other ones
If we’re not hearing about them, they must be doing a great job suppressing their inner white supremacist. Keep it up guys!
That is possible, yes. I think it is a fair point.
But I also understand that people want to somehow publicly show their opinions about Elon Musk. Or others.
For some, a public social media post is enough. Others want to do so with their wallet. Which, unlike a typical person's social media post, has the potential of catching, albeit indirectly, Elon Musk's attention. Which is their goal.
So I would not dismiss or make fun of the people who want to do it this way. I would not call it "virtue signaling" either if it is done with a genuine goal to publicly point out that some of Elon Musk's opinions are problematic or even dangerous.
These people are most likely not doing it because they want to "look like" they have a problem with such opinions. They do it because they genuinely believe that such opinions are harmful.
And while it's not ok to have terrible views, I can at least summon a token minimal level of respect for someone who keeps quiet about them, vs. someone who needs to yell them over and over, as loud as possible, for everyone to hear.
(Still driving my 2012 EV - not a typo - and got a can't-miss off-lease CPO deal on a "new" 2022 this year.)
How do you dig into this responsibly?
I really don't want to be buying a new car right now as the ICE ones all seem to be expensive trash but the EVs are changing so quickly that it isn't worth it.
My Chevy Volt is beginning to show its age, but you will pry it from my cold, dead hands at this point.
As the owner of both a 2012 BEV and a 2014 PHEV (in addition to my "new" 2022), all of which are in perfect mechanical condition, it's tough to look at BEV technology as something that will "greatly improve".
Is my 2022 BEV way better than my 2012? Sure, but it's an entire decade removed (my 2012 is looking like... well, whatever the dog did to it). Is it worse than current 2025/26 BEVs? No, not by much at all.
Keep on rockin' with the Volt until your dog rips up the upholstery. There'll be a three year old off-lease BEV or PHEV waiting for you at a shocking low price when it's time.
The reason is because the insurance companies want you to care about the car as an asset, on the basis that statistically they are driven more carefully (and therefore cause less third party property damage, bodily injury, etc.)
Compare to gas cars which is a very mature technology, and really only perks and features get updated.
Sure, other companies are making an effort to catch up with Tesla on autonomous driving, but range/speed/price are largely stagnant.
Mostly, it looks like every company (in the US/EU)is in shambles releasing half baked EVs hoping no one will notice that their hardware company is terrible at software.
I think some provinces have some additional vehicle-specific laws, but no comprehensive "lemon law" as such.
I sat in an EX90 demonstrator a year ago at the dealer and was told not to touch anything inside the cabin. The car wasn't ready back then and, from reading owners forums now, it's still not fully baked.
I don’t understand the logic of having each Polestar model running a unique software stack rather than progressively improving one system across all models - but must be a downstream impact of the fractured Geely badges.
Oh I know how to fix this one. Format windows partition and install linux
Been driving a Polestar 2 for nearly 4 years now and while it’s not a disastrous experience it could be a lot better. Things have improved over the years, but still pretty disappointed.
The infotainment system runs on a very outdated atom chip that’s too slow for Android Automotive. Constant frame drops, crashes or stuff just generally not working.
In a recent software update they disabled the cockpit view if you put it in reverse, just to save on resources.
The whole Android Automotive thing is worthless. There are barely any apps and when they finally released YouTube after 2 years it was just a buggy wrapper around the mobile web view. Most videos will just display a green screen due to lack of codec support, so I just pull out my phone now when I’m charging. But even the radio or Spotify fail to play half of the time.
The 360 degree camera sometimes will just not work. I still have a tiny back window, unlike the Polestar 4, but the reverse lights are so tiny and dim that it’s impossible to see anything when reversing at night.
Digital Key works, but also have to regularly pull out my phone to trigger it or manually press the button in the app. If you’re in a parking garage without internet you’re simply not getting into the car. And that’s without the random logouts.
Lane assist works relatively well, if it weren’t for the constant nagging to put your hands on the wheel even if you’re lightly tugging it. I need to really jerk it a bit before it stops beeping at me, making it completely useless.
Maintenance happens at the Volvo dealership where they made sure to make me feel like a second class citizen for not leasing a Volvo. They didn’t read my reservation mentioning the broken rain sensor, ensuring I had to return a week later for them to replace it because they didn’t have the part in stock.
I was between a model 3 and this car initially. Mainly because of the software, and for that reason I still regret not going for the M3, but given the current situation I’m happier driving the PS2.
Nearly 4 years in the chipset is still the same for the newer model.
2007 Mazdaspeed 3, just keeps going. All buttons, no screens.
2016 Porsche Cayman, one small multifunction screen, display only, no touch. Buttons for the very few “features” present on the car.
2016 Ford Transit Connect. 200k miles. Just goes. One small screen, doesn’t interfere with anything critical.
I’d have agreed with you in the past, but I just bought a new car for the first time. I wanted a compact pickup - there were basically none produced for a decade from 2012-2022 - the ones from before this gap are questionable safety-wise, and now either are falling apart from rust, or going for a hefty premium because there aren’t many enthusiast-maintained rust-free models for sale. The post 2022 ones for sale just don’t have enough of a discount off new models to be worth buying unless.
There are plenty of 2020-era cars that are, so far, remarkably reliable and cheap to maintain and repair. It's simply that Volvo and Polestar are quite bad at making vehicles.
I've had the "Complete Center Screen Malfunction" issue on my Polestar 2 (though an infotainment reboot "fixed" it.
But climate controls disappearing and climate shutting off during infotainment reboots is already pretty atrocious.
I have the "backup camera unavailable" issue, and despite multiple recalls and attempts to fix in software... the issue persists.
There are other issues, but none as bad as he's seen with his EX90!
In general, climate shutting off is safety issue too. In -40C it is not many minutes until you can’t see through windows.
Edit: OMG!
Anyone who thinks Tesla's Autopilot/FSD (or any aspect of their software) is bad... much of the competition is far worse.
A few issues:
* Lane keeping gets dangerously close to other cars in turns for no apparent reason * Lane keeping will randomly decide to follow non-existent lanes * You can't turn off lane assist (the baby version of lane keeping) and it tries to override you, leading to jerking of the steering wheel at high speed (eg to avoid an obstacle in the road). * When switching from R to D it wants you to press the brake. But if you are still moving a tiny bit or you don't press the brake hard enough it just shifts you into N instead (!!). I live on a hill and this is only detected when I press the accelerator pedal and nothing happens. But you have to come to a full stop to shift into D (Why???). * Some settings refuse to save to driver profile; to get single pedal driving you must use the paddle shifters each driving session to go from iDrive 3 to Max. But if you are moving too fast it refuses to change the mode. If you set the mode in R it resets when you move to D. * Despite being an EV with key/digital key detection you must manually press the ON button and manually press the Off button. Otherwise when you get out of the car it just sits there ready to be driven away by a thief. * No auto-lock when walking away. * Remember the pedal thing from shifting? Same with pressing ON button. If you don't press the brake pedal down hard enough or give it 1-2 seconds before pressing ON it just turns on accessory mode. * No geofencing so no ability to configure anything to behave differently at home. * Want to control the charge plug locking behavior? Don't bother going to Settings. You won't find it. You must go to the home page, then press the EV Leaf box. Then go to EV Settings from here. There you will find a new settings menu that has the same ones from Settings but it now has a couple of new categories not present with all the other settings of the car. Including whether to lock the charge port door and whether to lock the charge cable into the car itself. * Sometimes in following cruise control mode it just locks in at a speed different from the one you set for no reason. * When you touch the accelerator in cruise it turns cruise off so when you let off the accelerator the car actually jerks you around as it decelerates for a period of time before cruise kicks back in lurching you forward. * Don't press the accelerator for too long or it will just turn cruise control off entirely, including lane keeping. * It wants your hands on the steering wheel but if you move too much it turns off lane keeping but leaves cruise control on. * It has the usual massive plethora of physical buttons randomly scattered throughout the cabin. Some on the center console. Some on the three stalks. Some on the left side where you can't see them. Some below the touch screen. * Different controls behave differently. Sometimes next to each other with similar functions! Opening the rear door? Press and hold. Open the frunk? Double tap the button. The buttons are next to each other. The buttons below the touch screen? Capacitive it seems. Why when the rest are physical? * Despite the cluster being just a huge LCD they do almost nothing with it. The only customizations are for-pay add-ons. * Did I mention the light-up squares on the front are customizable? If you pay for them. Each pattern is an add-on you pay for. * Their app is an absolute disaster. I could do an entire post just about how awful every aspect of it is.
Recently, it's started turning itself on when you get out of the driver seat, and sometimes the power windows decide to operate themselves. I'm guessing it's only going to get worse over time. (There was recently a big software update, and those two issues started after they pushed it out.)
The only one that really drives me nuts is the lane-keeping feature, which cannot even follow clearly marked lanes in broad daylight. I don't know that I've ever had it go for more than 15s without disengaging on its own, and forget following even a gentle curve.
https://i.imgur.com/sxPpQIV_d.webp?maxwidth=760&fidelity=gra...
It had many failures.
>They (rightly) won’t give it to you
How did you determine "rightly"? Do you have additional information that wasn't disclosed in the post?
(I am just matching your stance)
Serious, is there evidence that this is happening an all EX90 models? And what does a lawyer say in such cases? Normally, $90,000 cars are leased. When does the special termination apply?