As a solo indiehacker in Europe, its crazy that I have to be so worried about VAT related things and big tech just goes around the whole thing and doesn't even expect to be charged just fined
amarcheschi 2 hours ago [-]
Well, for once execs are being investigated as well
cbg0 2 hours ago [-]
You only have to be worried if you're doing something illegal, like the guys in the article. Misfiling something won't land you in jail, just some fines at the most. Intent matters quite a bit.
vjvjvjvjghv 39 minutes ago [-]
“ just some fines at the most. “
That’s ok for the big players with deep pockets. For the little guy this is a much bigger problem. As it should. It would just be nice if law breaking would be a bigger problem for the bigger companies too.
bluefirebrand 2 hours ago [-]
When you're not wealthy, "some fines at most" can be a really nasty setback
omnimus 33 minutes ago [-]
No really the fines in line with the profits and your intent.
Businesses who get into trouble because of taxes are doing it intentionally. Or somebody in the company does it intentionally.
mcs5280 2 hours ago [-]
Let me guess. Jeff/Andy make a donation to a certain someone. Tariffs on Italy are threatened. Case is dropped.
robtherobber 2 hours ago [-]
I think that normally that may be the approach (and I'm not singling out Italy for this, it probably applies to most countries).
On this occasion, however:
> In all previous cases involving other international groups, once a settlement was reached and payment made, prosecutors closed related criminal investigations, either through plea deals or by dropping the cases.
> This time, however, Milan prosecutors did not share the tax authority's approach and decided to press ahead with their probe, leading to a request that the suspects be sent to trial.
mr_00ff00 2 hours ago [-]
Damn, is anyone an expert that can speak to the criminal law involved here?
It’s crazy that executives can jump around the law and not face any criminal charges, then the company picks up the bill (although I’m not ignorant thinking this isn’t usual)
I’m just curious to learn more about how often this is the case and you usually what happens with people afterward
limagnolia 1 hours ago [-]
I don't know about Italian law, but in the US tax evasion is pretty difficult in many cases to prove. It is illegal in the US to deliberately defraud the IRS to evade paying taxes, it is not illegal to make a mistake, or claim a deduction you think you can claim when the IRS decides you can't, etc. So prosecutors must prove you had an intent to evade taxes you knew you owed. Because they can rarely meet that bar, criminal charges are rarely brought.
nobodyandproud 2 hours ago [-]
While I share your sentiment, perhaps its better that it remain murky to give prosecutors a chance to succeed.
zoobab 2 hours ago [-]
"Tariffs on Italy are threatened. Case is dropped."
Justice is independent in most EU countries.
beardyw 1 hours ago [-]
But I think tariffs cannot be imposed on individual countries in the EU. At least that was how I understood the situation with Spain.
cbg0 2 hours ago [-]
There's quite a few asterisks that need to be appended to "independent".
gpderetta 2 hours ago [-]
It is quite independent in Italy actually. The government is pushing for a constitutional amendment to help "fix" this feature. There is going to be a referendum on the change very soon.
jonathanlydall 1 hours ago [-]
I have ancestral Italian Citizenship but have never lived in Italy.
I am occasionally called upon by the local consulate to perform my civic duty and vote.
Just this week I sent them back my ballot, now marked, for this referendum in a sealed envelope.
This referendum required me to dig more deeply than usual into Italian politics before I could decide which way I wanted to vote.
Honest sellers pay VAT, and scofflaws get sales. Yeah they gotta throw down the gauntlet here or else VAT is only for suckers.
myrmidon 2 hours ago [-]
It would be really nice to have a few relevant numbers in the article for context.
If this is just from foreign sellers operating on amazon.it, then 1.4B of evaded taxes sounds like a lot to me, because the total revenue should be well under 50B/y, so this would be a significant fraction of total sales tax (and I'd expect most sellers to not be foreign and thus unaffected).
Would be quite nice to see rich people held accountable for once, curious how this will go.
philipwhiuk 2 hours ago [-]
> and I'd expect most sellers to not be foreign and thus unaffected
Most sellers probably are foreign.
Yizahi 1 hours ago [-]
Billionaire doesn't pay tax: let's settle with you paying half of all stolen money as a fine and we'll drop the case.
A regular citizen doesn't pay tax: lets jail or deport you, bar the entry for a decade, take away your home, car and anything you own in general and make you unable to find job for the rest of your life. Also your tax is double that of the billionaire, glhf ;) .
creddit 52 minutes ago [-]
In Italy, the only entities consistently paying taxes are large corporations. Literally everyone else is constantly evading them.
randoments 15 minutes ago [-]
as a freelancer i must be doing something wrong then.
htx80nerd 50 minutes ago [-]
Rich people provide huge economic stimulant to the economy in many different ways.
keybored 38 minutes ago [-]
The sources for that are plenty of billionaire-funded think tanks. Don’t worry there are sources.
Rendered at 18:44:02 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
That’s ok for the big players with deep pockets. For the little guy this is a much bigger problem. As it should. It would just be nice if law breaking would be a bigger problem for the bigger companies too.
Businesses who get into trouble because of taxes are doing it intentionally. Or somebody in the company does it intentionally.
On this occasion, however:
> In all previous cases involving other international groups, once a settlement was reached and payment made, prosecutors closed related criminal investigations, either through plea deals or by dropping the cases.
> This time, however, Milan prosecutors did not share the tax authority's approach and decided to press ahead with their probe, leading to a request that the suspects be sent to trial.
It’s crazy that executives can jump around the law and not face any criminal charges, then the company picks up the bill (although I’m not ignorant thinking this isn’t usual)
I’m just curious to learn more about how often this is the case and you usually what happens with people afterward
Justice is independent in most EU countries.
I am occasionally called upon by the local consulate to perform my civic duty and vote.
Just this week I sent them back my ballot, now marked, for this referendum in a sealed envelope.
This referendum required me to dig more deeply than usual into Italian politics before I could decide which way I wanted to vote.
If this is just from foreign sellers operating on amazon.it, then 1.4B of evaded taxes sounds like a lot to me, because the total revenue should be well under 50B/y, so this would be a significant fraction of total sales tax (and I'd expect most sellers to not be foreign and thus unaffected).
Would be quite nice to see rich people held accountable for once, curious how this will go.
Most sellers probably are foreign.
A regular citizen doesn't pay tax: lets jail or deport you, bar the entry for a decade, take away your home, car and anything you own in general and make you unable to find job for the rest of your life. Also your tax is double that of the billionaire, glhf ;) .