The main justification floated is that the car was "going fast" and thus made the undercover Israeli soldiers feel unsafe.
The New York Times describes it as such:
"Ali Bani Odeh’s wife and four young boys hadn’t seen him in a month and a half when he came home to Tammun, in the West Bank, from his construction job in Israel late on Friday to spend the last few days of Ramadan with his family.
On Saturday night, the boys persuaded him to take them out for a drive. Eid al-Fitr, the end of Ramadan, was coming, so there were new clothes to buy. The day’s fast had been broken, so there were sweets to be had, too.
They picked up fried doughnut holes in Tubas, saving them for later, but the clothing shop they went to in Nablus was closed. It was already past midnight, so they headed back to Tammun: Khaled, 11, the oldest, in the back with Mustafa, 8, and Muhammad, 5. Othman, 6, blind and incapable of walking or feeding himself, was in his mother’s lap in front.
As they rounded a corner slowly, a few minutes from home, young Khaled and Mustafa recounted on Sunday, their mother, Waad, 35, asked her husband to pull over and take Othman from her so she could get something from her bag on the floor. Suddenly, the boys said, they saw laser pointers shining on their family from every direction, heard their mother scream, heard their father say “God is great” — and then heard a deafening fusillade of gunfire."
The situation in the West Bank (and similar forces are at play in Gaza, too) remind me of what's wrong with American policing, at a far more extreme scale.
The people charged with enforcing the peace deploy lethal force with near impunity at the slightest "provocation" (a child throwing a stone, a car driving too fast); I wouldn't be surprised if IDF forces deployed to the West Bank are trained much like American police officers are, to operate in constant fear and perceive absolutely everything and everyone as a deadly threat to be neutralized. The soldiers themselves are raised in a culture with deeply racist undertones, making them all too ready to view any random Palestinian as a terrorist. Meanwhile, the bureaucracy that should be overseeing them works only to protect them. It's no surprise that things like this happen as often as they do.
Reform in the US is imaginable, I can and do believe, but it's much harder for me to imagine it in Israel - even much of the so-called left in Israel is too radicalized against Palestinians after 100 years of conflict, the Second Intifada, and October 7.
ryandrake 3 hours ago [-]
That's a huge problem (immediate, unjustified escalation to violence becoming the norm) and:
> The main justification floated is that the car was "going fast" and thus made the undercover Israeli soldiers feel unsafe.
"I feel unsafe" has become the catch-all excuse for everything in the recent decade. It's used to justify everything from Karen complaining about someone's behavior in public to people calling the cops on someone for looking at them wrong, to making a scene on a public bus, to police officers jumping the gun and escalating to violence, all the way to war crimes. When did "I feel unsafe" become this ultimate i-can-do-anything-and-avoid-responsibility card? Like a magic spell that you can cast before doing something crazy. It's like that old "He's coming right for us" South Park joke, but instead of being a joke it has real life and death consequences.
C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 3 hours ago [-]
> I wouldn't be surprised if IDF forces deployed to the West Bank are trained much like American police officers are
That checks out. Although the history of "Warrior Policing" in the US predates this (going back to the 60s) and extends far beyond IDF training programs:
David Simon and others have written extensively for decades about the problems with the Baltimore Police Department, and other departments around the country. They trace these problems back to the war on drugs and other purely American factors.
The Amnesty article that you're citing is a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. The Baltimore Police Department did not need to learn about constitutional violations from the Israelis.
pstuart 2 hours ago [-]
Everybody thinks the War on Drugs is about "keeping people safe". It never was, it was always about manufacturing a tool to oppress "others".
convolvatron 36 minutes ago [-]
from that lens it was almost necessary to invent a pretense since people got all huffy about overt oppression at the end of Jim Crow.
mupuff1234 2 hours ago [-]
Pretty sure police brutality was invented way before Israel existed.
juliusceasar 2 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
bhouston 32 minutes ago [-]
The strong/dominant beating up in the weak is as old as time unfortunately. One doesn’t always have to make that particular comparison as it is a sensitive one. You can point to any major instance of colonization (by whomever) to see similar polices and in the past it was even more brutal because there were no reporters (eg Belgium Free Congo had an estimated population decline of 75% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocities_in_the_Congo_Free_S... .)
myth_drannon 42 minutes ago [-]
Oh, they did for sure. They learned at any opportunity Europeans or others will discard them, physically or otherwise. Your kind also learned from Goebbels, Palestinian movement's greatest teacher.
6510 1 hours ago [-]
In the 1200's British colonizers invaded Ireland, in 1920's the same colonial oppressors were moved to Palestine. Arthur Balfour was Chief Secretary for Ireland from 1887 till 1891 and it was his idea to create a Jewish state in Palestine.
Ship out the jews, radicalize the natives, have the two of them fight for hundreds of years. It couldn't be a more British idea.
dustractor 2 hours ago [-]
> I wouldn't be surprised if IDF forces deployed to the West Bank are trained much like American police officers are'
The IDF is a foreign occupation army, not the police.
At least in the US, the police come from much the same communities as they patrol, and there's some sort of democratic accountability. Don't like the police? You can vote for local government candidates who will implement reforms.
In the West Bank, Palestinians are subject to arbitrary violence at the hands of foreign soldiers. The IDF is not there to protect Palestinians. It's there to protect the Israeli settlers who are taking Palestinian land. If Palestinians don't like how the IDF behaves, tough luck. Palestinians can't vote in Israeli elections, so they have zero say in the government that exercises ultimate authority over their lives.
This is a fundamentally different situation from policing in the US.
6510 2 hours ago [-]
Their media is non stop hammering the citizen with scary Muslim stories since the beginning of the country, every day since birth, with a density as if nothing else ever happened in the world.
Deprogramming is possible. Just tell them it is impossible to argue it was their own idea. They know how hard it was rubbed in their face.
dmitrygr 2 hours ago [-]
> at the slightest "provocation"
Is that it though? When one has historical reasons to expect being attacked, one must be vigilant and one must be trigger-ready.
Yes, American police use these kinds of justifications when innocent people are killed too. It's absurd (watch Surviving Edged Weapons [0] some time) either way.
The reality is, if you have soldiers mowing down children throwing rocks, mowing down families driving around, mowing down kids playing football, mowing down toddlers in their bedrooms, mowing down hundreds of people each year [1], you've over-indexed on vigilance and under-indexed on the value of human life. You're not trigger-ready, you're trigger-happy.
A professional looks at and understands the situation as it exists now. A professional is trained to not get into situations where fear controls them. Your argument is a compelling one that either these are not professionals or that they are professionals and are doing this on purpose. The stats today clearly show the massive difference between danger to Israeli personnel and Palestinians. Israel at this point has either failed to train professional forces that seek to deescalate and avoid dangerous situations or is training forces to find situations they can claim fear as a justification for murder. So, pick. They are either amateurs at which point it is a deplorable to put amateurs with this much force near a vulnerable population or they are professionals trained to do exactly this, find ways to kill a vulnerable population and claim self defense.
dmitrygr 1 hours ago [-]
A professional is not obligated to risk death (or die) on the off chance that you are belligerent but not actually dangerous. Do not ever act belligerent around law enforcement, in any country, especially in a country where they LITERALLY EXPECT to be ambushed by people who act like that, because such people have been doing it for decades.
Be calm. Do not run. Talk clearly. Keep your hands visible. Did your parents not teach you?
ozlikethewizard 56 minutes ago [-]
So what exactly did the 8 year old boy sat in the back of his parents car do wrong?
dmitrygr 43 minutes ago [-]
Nothing, and that is very bad luck. My heart breaks for the kid.
But unless you are suggesting that laws should be not applied to those with kids, I am not sure why that matters? What do you suggest? I cannot wait for "kid" to be a number one accessory to bring to a heist then.
jmward01 52 minutes ago [-]
I'll repeat the bit about professionals being trained to avoid and deescalate. That is the point. I think the details of this, and many similar incidents clearly show a lack of attempt to deescalate or avoid. That was the clear argument I made in my post and am re-emphasizing now. This clear trend shows either malicious intent by professionals or amateurs put in a situation they shouldn't have been allowed near and those above them should be held accountable for it.
jll29 4 hours ago [-]
A certain amount of politics should/must be tolerated on HN, because you cannot compartmentalize technology, politics and morality.
No-one, not even people who say they like technology but do not care about politics, should be able to live their life wihtout knowing that we live in a world where six-year old blind children are murdered with automatic assault rifles.
(For the same reason that no-one should be able to live not knowing that jewish once were murdered in the millions in gas chambers.)
fc417fc802 55 minutes ago [-]
> automatic assault rifles
Trying hard to embellish your language I see. Might I suggest "military style automatic tactical assault rifle"?
My impression is that topics that involve politics are tolerated, even encouraged. It's politically charged discourse such as yours that's not welcome. It's near impossible to have an intellectual exchange with a political pundit.
I wonder if any VC out there would fund my pitch for an AI enhanced military style automatic tactical assault rifle with a copilot 360 targeting integration to ensure our troops can noscope420 at all times as well as a blockchain layer for auditing discharge events.
throw4748t858 2 hours ago [-]
Please do not mix events that happened 80 years ago on different contiment, with current situation.
Arabs are not responsible for WW2. Germans should give up their land!
oulipo2 2 hours ago [-]
Technology IS politics.
Technology is a form of control. And in the capitalist system, this control is mostly exerted by private companies, on which the rules of democracy do not apply.
There must be guardrails
fc417fc802 39 minutes ago [-]
If technology is politics then by the same logic guns are murder, cash is drugs, and gasoline is arson. Enjoy the padded cell you're advocating for.
vybandz 3 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
pasquinelli 3 hours ago [-]
i've been on hn a long time, and if there's a prohibition against anything vaguely political if it can't be connected to technology, i've never known it.
muzani 1 hours ago [-]
It's not strictly tech. But tech tends to be both new and intellectual. Sometimes it can be an old phenomenon but also curious; people often just paste Wikipedia links here and they trend.
From the guidelines:
On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.
Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.
jibbit 2 hours ago [-]
there is and always has been a strong prohibition of anything political on HN. it is widely and frequently discussed as the main problem with HN. Usually, a post like this would be removed very quickly
nxor2 3 hours ago [-]
I was shadowbanned for mentioning Iryna Zarutska. Most political topics can be connected to technology: technology after all is often how we hear of and discuss these things.
disqard 1 hours ago [-]
How did you realize you were shadowbanned?
I'm curious because I sometimes wonder, if that happened to me, would it affect the way in which I engage with this website?
FWIW, I often lurk, but sometimes engage (like right now). Perhaps it could happen to me and I would not realize it for a while...
igonvalue 56 minutes ago [-]
I'm wondering about the broader context here: Are stories like this rare or common? Are they increasing or decreasing in frequency?
bhouston 39 minutes ago [-]
Yeah it is getting worse. This was written 3 days ago before this event by Human Rights Watch:
Eh, tbh I've given up. Can't point out the terrible things that the IDF are up to without being labelled an apologist, or terrorist supporter, or just getting a massively negative reaction.
Now I'm not one to fall prey to the conspiracy theories around Judaism...but like...is it not possible to say that both hamas and the IDF do terrible things? And that innocent civilians are caught in between, with the usual bad faith reasons of "they were hiding hamas members" aka the exact same rhetoric that Russia used when accused of something terrible that they obviously did, deflection and formal outrage.
The very fact I feel I have to tread so carefully with my comment is an indication that something is seriously, seriously wrong. I don't live in China, I don't live in Russia. But when speaking about Israel or the IDF, I feel like I do.
bhouston 2 hours ago [-]
> is it not possible to say that both hamas and the IDF do terrible things?
I agree. Hamas and IDF do terrible things - the ICC issued warrants for the leaders of both. This is why an external party has to impose a solution and it should involve in my opinion separation (two-states.) Both parties are radicalized at least for now and need to be separated and allowed to manage their own affairs while allowing the other to exist.
nailer 4 minutes ago [-]
Two states solutions have been offered to and rejected by Arab nationalists since Palestine was partitioned in 1947.
HN being HN: this is a verifiable fact at any source you name.
igonvalue 2 hours ago [-]
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kakacik 4 hours ago [-]
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cogman10 4 hours ago [-]
> this is war 101
The west bank isn't at war with Israel. There wasn't some conflict or event that has justified these actions.
I wish people understood this better. Even if you could manage to justify what's happening in gaza as "this is war", Gaza and the west bank are separate entities with separate governments. The west bank, in particular, is more like an Indian reservation in the US, with the Israeli government effectively exercising supremacy over all aspects of the government.
Theoretically, the IDF is supposed to be the police force for the west bank. That's why they occupy it.
xdennis 3 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
cogman10 3 hours ago [-]
Wrong.
Gaza and the West Bank aren't countries, they have no autonomy. Palestine isn't a country, it was once where Israel now sits, but hasn't been since the 40s.
Palestinians are people, must like Jews are people. Palestinians are the indigenous inhabitants of Israel, the west bank, and gaza.
Much like all Jews aren't responsible for the actions of Israel, All Palestinians aren't responsible for the actions of Hamas. Even the residence of Gaza.
verbify 3 hours ago [-]
> Palestine isn't a country, it was once where Israel now sits, but hasn't been since the 40s.
In the 40s, the British were ruling Palestine as a mandate, I wouldn’t really call that a country.
cogman10 3 hours ago [-]
Fair enough. I should say that it was the name of the region as they've basically not been fully autonomous in modern history. But prior to the establishment of Israel, they were basically just left alone by both the Ottomans and Brittan.
LeoNatan25 3 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
cogman10 3 hours ago [-]
What am I incorrect about?
s5300 3 hours ago [-]
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noah_buddy 3 hours ago [-]
> You can't then say that the West Bank is not responsible for what the rest of Palestine did.
Collective punishment is a war crime.
xg15 4 hours ago [-]
> this is war 101, every day.
Except this situation has been going on like this for 60 years - with Israel, or the other western states having absolutely no plans to change anything about it (except making it even worse).
Qiu_Zhanxuan 3 hours ago [-]
completely deranged way of thinking that calls for a hard self-reflection.
intexpress 3 hours ago [-]
I don’t think anyone is going to forget about this
kreyenborgi 3 hours ago [-]
> this is war 101
genocide 101
olelele 4 hours ago [-]
I have followed this conflict since Operation Cast Lead and the beginnings of the siege on Gaza.
Israel has been using enormous amounts of force against the Palestinian people since then, with death tolls of _at least_ 100 dead Palestinians for every dead Israeli.
For a very good account of life in Israel around the time of Cast Lead I recommend Guy Delisle, brilliant diary in comic form.
His partner was working for Doctors Without Borders, the Israeli Army refused to let them enter Gaza to help the people suffering under their bombardments.
nailer 3 minutes ago [-]
> death tolls of _at least_ 100 dead Palestinians for every dead Israeli.
Not because the Palestinians don’t try to kill Israeli civilians though as I’m sure you’re aware.
I think the middle eastern conflicts are a tragedy. That said, this story does not belong on HN. As others called out this is a tech community and while there is sometimes an overlap with politics, it should at least be somewhat related like mass surveillance or AI being used for war.
HN is one of the most informative and least toxic communities and I’d appreciate if it would stay this way.
Sparkle-san 2 hours ago [-]
At the same time, there must be a point where general humanity overrides community guidelines.
therealdrag0 2 hours ago [-]
Why? Everyone has alternative news sources where they can find such stories, and there’s nothing new here. There’s always some tragedy that you could argue deserves more attention, I don’t think we should hold our guidelines hostage to pleas for the heart.
Sparkle-san 2 hours ago [-]
> I don’t think we should hold our guidelines hostage to pleas for the heart.
I don't think that's an accurate framing of the situation. It's a single post that enough people decided was worthy of being upvoted to the front page. I think allowing the community to decide is far more inline with the spirit of hacker news than the outright banning a category of posts.
fc417fc802 26 minutes ago [-]
Without taking one side or the other I just want to point out that a large part of the utility of guidelines or rules is that communities left to their own devices typically develop toxic patterns that are detrimental on the whole. They enable the community to decide not to leave something up to the community in the future.
It's a large part of the idea behind countries having constitutions for example.
IncreasePosts 2 hours ago [-]
Why does Gaza get 10x the coverage on HN and other social media well, when what has been happening in Sudan in the same time period is 10x worse?
(The 10x coverage number is from algolia hn search, the 10x worse number is from reported killings in the past year)
Sparkle-san 2 hours ago [-]
Because there is often a large tech component to it. The United States and Israel have two of the most advanced high-tech sectors in the world and they are playing a large role in this conflict.
muzani 1 hours ago [-]
And the people on HN work disproportionately in such companies, so it hits closer to home.
If Microsoft, Meta, Palantir, OpenAI, etc, were complicit in genocide in Sudan, Sudan would have much more attention.
anigbrowl 1 hours ago [-]
Because Sudan isn't a tech/investment hub, and there's no overlap betweent he US and Sudanese defense industries.
awnird 2 hours ago [-]
The atrocities in Gaza are funded by, and sometimes even committed by, Americans. That’s why a predominantly American forum is interested in it.
tovej 2 hours ago [-]
Because the west (our political and economic system) supports this war, and does so much more loudly than the war in Sudan,which is funded by the UAE, also a US ally, but a far less visible and consequential one. Nobody is visible working the media or politicians to win people over for the UAE every day, unlike Israel.
The aggressor in the Gaza genocide is also pulling the rest of the west into new wars in the region. The war is also deeply connected with our defense and tech industries.
There is plenty of reason to discuss this war.
xg15 2 hours ago [-]
Also, the conflict around "the area from the river to the sea" in it's entirety is something like 140 years old, with western countries having played a driving role since the very beginning. The Sudan conflict on its own has no such history. (The colonial history of Africa is a different story)
Generally, I think it's reasonable to pay more attention to conflicts where the own side is in the wrong. I don't need to demonstrate or raise awareness if my government is already acting like I'd want it to.
selcuka 54 minutes ago [-]
> it should at least be somewhat related like mass surveillance or AI being used for war
Sure. Let's spin the story on developments in laser-guided sniper rifle accuracy:
> Suddenly, the boys said, they saw laser pointers shining on their family from every direction, heard their mother scream, heard their father say “God is great” — and then heard a deafening fusillade of gunfire.
khaledh 2 hours ago [-]
Israel has its hands in many tech companies and circles. The tech community deserves to know who they're dealing with.
oulipo2 2 hours ago [-]
HN routinely talks about politics. Thinking that technology and politics can be understood in isolation is a pipe dream
diego_moita 2 hours ago [-]
> and least toxic communities
Your comment sounds toxic to me. It endorses silence in face of a genocide.
We discussed a lot other wars here without immediate technological or economic consequences: Ukraine, Iraq, etc.
Why not the genocide in Gaza & West Bank?
crawfordcomeaux 2 hours ago [-]
The tech community props up these regimes by continuing to serve their tech needs. Everything is political in this day.
Toxic is saying politics needs to be kept separate. If we can't discuss how tech is literally fueling genocide, enslavement, and exploitation of people, then all other discussions tacitly serve those functions.
sreejithr 2 hours ago [-]
Exactly! Don't bring politics into HN. Everyone and their dog have grievances. There's a time and place for them.
Ar-Curunir 1 hours ago [-]
Exactly, we shouldn’t waste the precious time of HNers so that they can instead… checks notes… read about the nth vibevcoded side project!
karim79 38 minutes ago [-]
Imagine, this is just one of thousands upon thousands of incredibly tragic and similar stories of the last few years (going back much further than October 7th).
Most such stories never see the light of day. Hind Rajab is one such story which got some reasonable exposure [0]. I suppose this one will as well get due exposure at some point.
But the vast majority of similar atrocities will just vanish in the sands of time.
The scale of these atrocities and our governments' support are the reason why this story should be on HN. We elect people who support this, therefore it's only right it follows us and comes up often, even when it's not convenient. That "inconvenience" (skipping a story in HN feed every now and then) is nothing compared to the oppression our democracies support
This wouldn't have happened if they didn't dehumanize their enemies. This should be considered a crime in itself.
Ar-Curunir 47 minutes ago [-]
Who exactly are you blaming here, the IDF or the boys family?
urig 3 hours ago [-]
As an Israeli, this is an inexcusable crime by IDF soldiers. Appallingly, I expect them to receive no punishment. My country's government is criminally racist.
> Israel's most senior military lawyer has said all charges against five soldiers accused of sexually abusing a Palestinian detainee from Gaza have been dropped.
Don't worry, they punished someone.
> It later emerged the CCTV video had been leaked by the then-Israeli Military Advocate General, Maj Gen Yifat Tomer-Yerushalmi, leading to her resignation and arrest.
fennecbutt 2 hours ago [-]
Can't say I'm glad to have read that, but at the same time it's good that male victims of wartime sexual assault/rape get covered. It's just a shame that the response is still incredibly muted. It's like men just don't want to think about it.
Whereas I feel pure, hot rage at the lack of coverage, the lack of anybody caring. Raped men being offered paracetamol because the clinics after only for women has been seared into my brain for a long time now: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/jul/17/the-rape-of-....
Nothing has changed since then either.
anigbrowl 55 minutes ago [-]
It is good that it gets covered, but the antagonistic and accelerated nature of modern media means that such coverage is rapidly subjected to spin, repackaging and so on. This opinionated but imho fair article summarizes how one of the self-admitted participants in the incident was treated as a mini0celebrity by one of the right-aligned Israeli TV channels:-
Not a Jew, use to travel to Israel and am usually the sole person left still defending Israel. My gut reaction to 10-7 was to nuke Gaza for good. A lot has happened since then and now, even I consider it irresponsible to give Israel the benefit of the doubt anymore, as this enables such atrocities which I am sure are just the tip of the iceberg.
It’s not that Palestinians haven’t been caught lying repeatedly. It’s that the overall setup is just obviously allowing for such things to happen.
I wonder if 80 years of quasi-state-of-war let some circles in the Israeli power structure realize, that more conflict means more power for them.
Anyways, if Israel looses support from people like me, the overall image is probably in the absolute gutter.
Agingcoder 2 hours ago [-]
If you don’t mind developing, what made you switch stance ? many people never change their minds even when faced with overwhelming evidence , and based on your prior level of support, I’m quite curious about the actual process .
selcuka 51 minutes ago [-]
> many people never change their minds even when faced with overwhelming evidence
Not the OP, but many people do. I've changed my stance on similar topics multiple times in the past, based on new (to me, at least) evidence.
dgxyz 49 minutes ago [-]
Nuking Gaza is an abhorrent position but I don't think there will be any reform out there until there is a decisive win and if I have to pick a side it's not the Palestinians. If the Palestinians win it'll embolden other states or factions to have another go at the six-day war again and possibly prop up break-away action against other factions' host countries. There needs to be a complete and utter defeat that results in an enlightenment process. The strategy and military approach Hamas uses for example cannot be seen to win.
You have to look at the bigger picture. If they lose it's going to be a problem for all of us. Thus I have to support them.
And no I'm not a Trump supporter or Jewish or Israeli. The current operation in Iran is a fuck up. The whole thing that lead to 10-7 was a fuck up. It should have been dealt with years ago, preferably through diplomacy and threat of a strong hand rather than actually having to bomb the place.
There's no righteous side at all in this conflict.
fc417fc802 10 minutes ago [-]
Same thought in reverse. If oppressive regimes see that intentionally backing a population into a corner ultimately lets them get away with genocide on the global stage then presumably more of them will attempt it in the future.
Ar-Curunir 1 hours ago [-]
> My gut reaction to 10-7 was to nuke Gaza for good
What the actual fuck. Sorry, but you’re a fucking maniac.
oulipo2 2 hours ago [-]
> more conflict means more power for them
That's literally the strategy of the Likud, who undermined the more moderate Fattah to allow the extremist Hamas to reign on the Gaza strip, hoping that one day the 7th of october would happen, and would let them unleash a genocide...
Hopefully, such trigger-happy soldiers are in the minority.
oulipo2 2 hours ago [-]
They are not. And they are incited by their hierarchy to commit more crimes, because they are not held accountable
ahf8Aithaex7Nai 4 hours ago [-]
I am German. My government does not acknowledge the tragedy that has been unfolding in Gaza since the Hamas attack in October 2023. It’s absurd. Since then, Jewish people in Berlin who were demonstrating alongside Palestinians against the war in Gaza have been beaten down by the German police. In 2021, Esther Bejarano, the last survivor of the Auschwitz Girls’ Orchestra, passed away in Hamburg. Whenever she commented on the culture of remembrance, the media was eager to report on it. Whenever she commented on the situation of the Palestinians, it was not reported in the media. People sometimes ask how it was possible that the vast majority of so-called ordinary people in this country back then could simply tolerate these crimes against Jews and look the other way. Now that should be clear to everyone. The Max Planck Institute in Rostock estimates that well over 100,000 people have been killed in Gaza. But nobody here gives a damn (at least not publicly). We’re even supplying weapons there. Everyone acts as if they’ve forgotten what was written in German newspapers about the current Israeli government when it took office, and as if there were no connection to what’s happening in Gaza right now. I am deeply and profoundly disappointed in the elected officials and public servants of my country. They have learned nothing from the atrocities committed by their grandfathers.
olelele 4 hours ago [-]
I live in DE too, it's terrifying. I didn't realize the extent of the armaments shipped to Israel from Germany until recently.
The Israeli navy ships were built in German shipyards and subsidized 30%...
shdudns 2 hours ago [-]
I find this bewildering. Im not German. Im not Israeli.
Yet I have known that Israel sails German subs (the best in the world) since.... the Greek financial crisis (the subs were part of the scandal) ? Certainly since the mid 2010s.
Why is this?
stefantalpalaru 2 hours ago [-]
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black_13 3 hours ago [-]
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noworriesnate 4 hours ago [-]
> Auschwitz Girls’ Orchestra
Is this something from the post-war or did that really exist?
“The Germans wanted a propaganda tool for [SS] visitors and camp newsreels and a tool to boost camp morale.”
There were also several men’s orchestras.
riedel 2 hours ago [-]
While I agree with you on the case of Esther Bejerano (a recent example from public broadcasting shows that her own communist beliefs and support for BDS are seemingly 'censored' [0]), I find the general situation complicated. Although it should be easy for any half intellectual being to contextualize the recent Israeli aggression by mentioning October 7, like you did, this is often not done. At the same time I think that the coverage of likely Israeli war crimes also happens in German media and I think nobody is looking away. Still Germany is the reason why the whole mess exists in the first place. I feel, that Germany, has quite some problems like many other countries to find it's
role in a world where particularly the UN is failing and international law/human rights seem not enforcable.
It's even more insidious, I know activists in your country and they not only abhor the current support for Israel's genocide but they are terrified of their activism being criminalized under anti-nazi laws. How ironic.
metaPushkin 4 hours ago [-]
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jokoon 3 hours ago [-]
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tovej 3 hours ago [-]
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ActorNightly 3 hours ago [-]
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ebbi 3 hours ago [-]
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ActorNightly 3 hours ago [-]
Every single person is a product of their circumstances. If you personally were to grow up in either country, the neural network in your brain would be trained with a way different set of data compared to what you experienced, and you would be a different person.
I don't have sympathy or hated for either side, this is just a byproduct of being human.
ebbi 3 hours ago [-]
Are you trying to justify or minimize families being killed for no reason?
I don't get your response in context of what I posted. There are truths, and pointing out someone that goes against that truth shouldn't have to worry about circumstances - especially if those circumstances have been widely documented to be violence since its inception.
blell 3 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
xyzelement 4 hours ago [-]
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olelele 4 hours ago [-]
There is a difference between war and extermination.
breppp 3 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
Hikikomori 3 hours ago [-]
>and unfortunately for us the palestinians political leadership has brought us all into this scenario
Simply not true. The plan from the start was to take over the area for jews, see Ben Gurions private letters. Netanyahu has supported Hamas to make sure that Palestine couldn't be politically united to be able to continue taking over the west bank. The power balance has since long been tipped to one side that is engineering the situation.
breppp 3 hours ago [-]
"We must seek agreement and understanding with the Arab people only through the Arab worker, and only an alliance of Jewish and Arab workers will establish and maintain an alliance of the Jewish and Arab peoples in Palestine"
That's a Ben Gurion quote, who was a socialist and believed in shared class struggle of Jews and Arabs. The rest of your comment is influenced by other lack of nuance
oa335 2 hours ago [-]
Ben-Gurion famously preached coexistence publicly (sometimes) but his private messages and memoirs betray his true beliefs:
5 October 1937, Ben-Gurion wrote in a letter to his 16 year old son Amos: “We must expel the Arabs and take their places…. And, if we have to use force-not to dispossess the Arabs of the Negev and Transjordan, but to guarantee our own right to settle in those places- then we have force at our disposal.”
“It is very possible that the Arabs of the neighboring countries will come to their aid against us. But our strength will exceed theirs. Not only because we will be better organized and equipped, but because behind us there stands a still larger force, superior in quantity and quality …the whole younger generation of Jews from Europe and America.”
Ben-Gurion, Zichronot [Memoirs], Vol. 4, p.297-299, p. 330-331.
See also Teveth, Ben-Gurion and the Palestinian Arabs, p. 182-189
And that's the difference between 1937 and the 1920s. In between the Palestinians had committed the 1929 and 1936 massacres which included ethnic cleansing of Jewish communities which predated Arab presence, such as the Jews of Gaza.
Interesting to know that your quote is disputed in the original text, as to say the exact opposite.
fakedang 3 hours ago [-]
Well newsflash, the Israeli socialists and left wing have lost all influence for the most part. The only way you can form a government in the Knesset today is by a coalition of parties, most of which lean right-wing to far-right or ultra-Orthodox.
busterarm 3 hours ago [-]
The last time I was in Berlin (2018), I was actually somewhat shocked by the amount of antisemitic graffiti that I saw just about everywhere (especially on lamp posts). Especially given the strictness of the laws against such speech.
nxor2 3 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
DiogenesKynikos 2 hours ago [-]
What does that have to do with the subject of this thread at all? Christians are also terrible to gay people, and European societies have only very recently (in the last two to three decades) become somewhat more tolerant.
In the context of Israel-Palestine, this issue is only raised in order to somehow justify Israeli oppression of the Palestinians, a la "They deserve it because they're not as enlightened as we are."
vehemenz 1 hours ago [-]
It’s relevant because most commenters here hold moral standards that are completely self-undermining because they choose to not apply them to the “oppressed” group.
Consider that it doesn’t matter how genocidal Israel’s Islamicist neighbors are. The IDF occassionally targets civilians when they shouldn’t. Meanwhile Israel’s neighbors don’t even draw the distinction.
otikik 2 hours ago [-]
Wait until you hear Muslims in Europe can be openly gay.
fennecbutt 2 hours ago [-]
Often not to their families or Muslim peers.
And look at surveys taken by European Muslims on their opinions on what should be done to gay people like me, when they can answer anonymously or think the surveyor is a fellow Muslim.
mmooss 1 hours ago [-]
The parent comment is just anti-Muslim hate. It has nothing to do with the topic.
busterarm 41 minutes ago [-]
Uh, I didn't say anything about Muslims at all. I just said that I was in Berlin.
abcde666777 1 hours ago [-]
Regarding rules of whether or not this should be posted here - I think it's less about whether it's important and more about whether it causes arguments.
As the saying goes, religion and politics.
People are going to have varying and at times oppositional views to things like this, and frankly the rest of the internet is often flooded with those discussions, so bubbles isolated from them can be a positive.
We don't need to mourn the woes of the world every hour of every day.
drivingmenuts 2 hours ago [-]
The question isn’t “why is this here?” but rather “are you OK with what happened?”
Honestly, it looks like a lot of you are.
abcde666777 2 hours ago [-]
Approximately two people die per second. Are you mourning all of them?
Human beings are generally at peace with tragedies outside their direct experience.
Including you.
spaghetdefects 2 hours ago [-]
If my tax dollars, military and government are killing those two people every second, you better believe that I'm going to do everything in my power to stop it.
abcde666777 2 hours ago [-]
You'll never live in a nation where that isn't the case.
But a recommendation: if you're so passionate about it, brow beating people on here is probably a less than optimal use of your time.
Go make a difference ey.
spaghetdefects 1 hours ago [-]
You will never find a nation more illegitimate, manipulative and in control of the US government than Israel. I'm using my voice as a human to speak up and there are a rapidly dwindling number of Zionists. Israel will cease to exist as we know it very soon.
buttsack 46 minutes ago [-]
The fuck are you on about? Pretty sure most niche places like Iceland or Costa Rica are not doing this, and every government on earth thinks of war as passe.
Only defense companies who profit and religious fucking idiots like you think war is some necessary thing.
oa335 4 hours ago [-]
An eyewitness account from the article:
(The eyewitness) told us the family car had just turned left into his street, facing uphill, and had come to a complete halt before any shots were fired, contradicting the Israeli army account.
I asked if he had heard any warnings given by the Israeli forces, or any warning shots fired.
"No, nothing," he said. "The firing directly targeted the car. I just heard the woman in the car screaming. The little kids were crying before they were killed."
metalman 1 hours ago [-]
Verbatum of the falsified excuse used to murder Reni Good in Miniapolis.
The ZGF, zionist genocide force are the most ethical perverts in the world.
plutokras 2 hours ago [-]
> Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.
I see people saying this story doesn't belong on HN. genuine question, if this story were about a german national would it be considered as political? is palestinian existence inherently more political than other peoples' existence?
haunter 4 hours ago [-]
I'm saying this as someone who doesn't really care about this certain topic:
Either we allow _all_ political content or nothing.
The HN guidelines are incredibly grey and handwave-y
>Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.
To me HN became to big for its own good since the Covid days. It's like the reddit front page except there are no subs with mods but one big flood (basically /r/all).
If I got to /r/linux, /r/selfhosted/, /r/networking/ or other tech subs I'll probably find what I saw on HN 15 years ago. But less and less here.
crote 2 hours ago [-]
Banning all political content means banning all mention of open-source software, self-driving cars, anything involving a Big Tech company, anything concerning AI, anything to do with EU or US legislation, anything involving hacking or right to repair, anything about copyright...
Ban all politics, and you ban >99% of HN content. Heck, the very concept of HN itself is political!
itsangaris 4 hours ago [-]
bingo
twiclo 4 hours ago [-]
From the guidelines:
What to Submit
On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.
Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.
If the story was about a German national then yes, I would still say this is political and doesn't gratify my intellectual curiosity.
4 hours ago [-]
4 hours ago [-]
_DeadFred_ 4 hours ago [-]
Every time these sorts of articles get posted people that express a differing opinion from the standard get flagged (making it so you can't read their post at all) pretty quickly making it seem more like the intention isn't to start discussion. It seems like it's gotten to the point that the people that just get flagged into oblivion stopped trying to post.
iinnPP 2 hours ago [-]
It's not just these articles. Having any differing opinions on basically anything now.
It's as far from hacking interest as it gets for me.
layer8 4 hours ago [-]
FWIW, you can read flagged posts and comments by turning on “showdead” in your profile.
polski-g 4 hours ago [-]
News not connected to technology or VC doesn't belong on HN.
itsangaris 4 hours ago [-]
is that an opinion or a consistently enforced policy?
I'll bite: If for any reason, probably because it's neither technically interesting nor entrepreneurial in nature.
US Politics seems to get more of a pass, probably due to Silicon Valley being there (and nearly all the major tech outlets), similarly some China news gets a pass, also largely when it relates to supply chain and Taiwan.
MisterTea 4 hours ago [-]
> US Politics seems to get more of a pass,
This goes beyond US politics. The US and Israel do not exist in a bubble. This conflict can and will have big repercussions which will impact our technical and entrepreneurial institutions.
appreciatorBus 4 hours ago [-]
All events in the universe are connected to all others. If the rule is that anything that could affect anyone is fair game, then there simply are no rules, to subject guidelines, no filter whatsoever. It's hackernews.com without the "hacker"
actionfromafar 4 hours ago [-]
All events are connected, but the only superpower is a little more connected.
dijit 4 hours ago [-]
Nothing exists in total isolation, you have to draw lines anyway.
4 hours ago [-]
xdennis 3 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
heraldgeezer 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
itsangaris 4 hours ago [-]
this article is about the west bank
heraldgeezer 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
monegator 5 hours ago [-]
If anything, it's refreshing to see something that isn't about the latest apple / llm / current techbro trend bullshit
pipes 5 hours ago [-]
I can go to Reddit for that.
handfuloflight 2 hours ago [-]
You can also not click on links you are not interested in. Is that difficult?
layer8 3 hours ago [-]
You can go to Reddit for everything. There’s even r/hackernews.
gegtik 4 hours ago [-]
[dead]
5 hours ago [-]
stefantalpalaru 2 hours ago [-]
[dead]
quirk 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
tomhow 3 hours ago [-]
Mainstream world news has a place on HN if it contains "significant new information", and as much as this site is primarily for curious conversation and gratifying intellectual curiosity, we don't want to pretend that horrific events like this aren't happening.
quirk 3 hours ago [-]
Horrific events happen almost every hour of every day. This is political, and the events that are upvoted are always from the same political perspective. If you don't see this, you're blind. But from my perspective, mods do see it, are ok with it, and that is unfortunate. There are few places left online without explicit political bias. HN used to be one of them.
drraah 2 hours ago [-]
and your comment is flagged, as is mine. This article has no relevance to HN, just more political activism
3 hours ago [-]
surgical_fire 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
tomhow 3 hours ago [-]
> The same reason your inane question is on HN.
When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."
These are not even a isolated or a new pattern that Palestinian people are enduring such atrocities by the rogue israeli regime with full impunity from the western super powers. In fact, the Palestinian people have been suffering such oppression and injustice everyday at the hand of zionist society on a regular basis since 1948.
In fact, here are some more such equally horrible actions of the israelis just in the recent days that you may not find on the western media ever.
Historically, the western news media have always downplayed or completely ignored the persecution of Palestinians at every cost. Now due to rise of social media and citizen journalism, the israeli and zionist atrocities are coming out every single day hundreds of times, causing the abysmal distrust in these media outlets across the globe. To salvage their credibility, the western media now picking up some stories here and there, yet use the very artistic and convoluted language not to damage the image of the rogue zionist regime as much as possible. Journalists with conscience, who could not take anymore such order from their bosses, kept resigning from these news outlets:
* The New York Times
- Anne Boyer: The Pulitzer Prize-winning poetry editor for The New York Times Magazine resigned in November 2023. In her resignation letter, she wrote that she could no longer work for the publication amidst the "reasonable tones of those who aim to acclimatize us to this unreasonable suffering" and "verbally sanitized hellscapes."
- Jazmine Hughes: An award-winning staff writer for The New York Times Magazine resigned in November 2023 after signing an open letter by "Writers Against the War on Gaza." The outlet stated the signing violated its policies on public protest.
- Jamie Lauren Keiles: A frequent contributor and writer for the magazine also resigned in solidarity with Hughes after signing the same open letter.
* BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation)
- Karishma Patel: A presenter and journalist who walked out of the BBC in October 2024. She later published an essay in The Guardian criticizing the broadcaster's "obstructive editorial policy" and its decision to shelf the documentary Gaza: Doctors Under Attack.
- Bassam Bounenni: A veteran North Africa correspondent for BBC Arabic resigned in October 2023. He announced his departure on social media, stating it was for the sake of his "professional integrity" regarding the coverage of the escalation in Gaza.
- Noah Abrahams: A freelance sports reporter for the BBC resigned in October 2023 in protest of the broadcaster's refusal to use the word "terrorist" to describe Hamas, highlighting the internal friction over language and terminology.
* Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC)
- Nour Haydar: A political reporter in the Canberra bureau resigned in early 2024. She cited concerns over the broadcaster's coverage of the Gaza conflict and its treatment of culturally diverse staff as primary reasons for her departure.
* Reuters
- Valerie Zink: A Canadian photojournalist who resigned from Reuters in August 2025. She publicly denounced the agency's coverage as a "betrayal of journalists," specifically citing an instance where the outlet allegedly published unsubstantiated claims from the Israeli military to justify the killing of a Palestinian colleague.
LePetitPrince 3 hours ago [-]
[dead]
oulipo2 3 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
HotGarbage 5 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
longislandguido 5 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
kome 5 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
5 hours ago [-]
tmp10423288442 5 hours ago [-]
There's no mention of any particular company, tech or otherwise, here. Yes, you can probably connect your work in some way to something that affects the military if you live in the US or Israel (and even many places outside of it - we're not restricting to direct connections), but, after all, "there is no ethical consumerism under capitalism".
0x3f 5 hours ago [-]
If I worked at [supposedly evil company], I doubt this largely unverifiable story would cause much turmoil. I'm sure at work I'd be hearing about much worse and more concrete stuff already.
bhouston 5 hours ago [-]
It is a verifiable story, it is covered as fact in Israeli newspapers and it includes verification by the IDF:
Seen this on repeat lately - there will be some war crime that the IDF commits, soldiers or Israeli citizens celebrate it themselves in a TikTok or in Israeli media, then the US media will argue that it didn’t happen or “there’s some information missing”. It’s actually kind of nuts.
Yes driving fast means - execution.
0x3f 5 hours ago [-]
Verification _of what_ though? The OP article makes a lot of claims. Your own link says the car was a legit target for 'speeding at' troops, which completely opposes much of the BBC article.
bhouston 5 hours ago [-]
Just because the IDF issued its "justification" doesn't mean it is. As we know from Gaza, there is always a justification.
Here is a good description from the New York Times:
"Ali Bani Odeh’s wife and four young boys hadn’t seen him in a month and a half when he came home to Tammun, in the West Bank, from his construction job in Israel late on Friday to spend the last few days of Ramadan with his family.
On Saturday night, the boys persuaded him to take them out for a drive. Eid al-Fitr, the end of Ramadan, was coming, so there were new clothes to buy. The day’s fast had been broken, so there were sweets to be had, too.
They picked up fried doughnut holes in Tubas, saving them for later, but the clothing shop they went to in Nablus was closed. It was already past midnight, so they headed back to Tammun: Khaled, 11, the oldest, in the back with Mustafa, 8, and Muhammad, 5. Othman, 6, blind and incapable of walking or feeding himself, was in his mother’s lap in front.
As they rounded a corner slowly, a few minutes from home, young Khaled and Mustafa recounted on Sunday, their mother, Waad, 35, asked her husband to pull over and take Othman from her so she could get something from her bag on the floor. Suddenly, the boys said, they saw laser pointers shining on their family from every direction, heard their mother scream, heard their father say “God is great” — and then heard a deafening fusillade of gunfire."
I haven't sided with the IDF account, I've said you're overstating the number of facts that "both sides agree on" as a proxy for what's verifiable.
adamhartenz 5 hours ago [-]
DIfferent people have different levels of empathy. If you can live with these things happening in the world, let along being involved even in an extremely minor way then fine, but don't try and downplay it.
0x3f 5 hours ago [-]
I think it's naive to think that things aren't overplayed or dramatized whenever I read such an article, from whatever PoV. So it can only ever be _at most_ as bad as the article claims. Then it's only natural to downplay.
Daishiman 5 hours ago [-]
What's naive is to think that this is overplayed when the same events are happening day and day out after Israeli settles continue campaigns of ethnic cleansing in the West Bank. This is just _one_ representative story of dozens that happen every day as reported by many NGOs. This one was merely made viral.
0x3f 5 hours ago [-]
Sorry, I just don't buy the coached words of a 12 year old as categorically truthful. If anything, ethnic cleansing would be a more statistical and thus verifiable claim than the literal anecdote of a child.
Daishiman 4 hours ago [-]
Really interesting that out of all the testimonials coming out from Gaza and the West Bank that repeat observable, recorded events over and over again, by people in all sides of the conflict, that you selective choose skepticism about this one as if Hind Rajab didn´t happen.
0x3f 2 hours ago [-]
I selectively chose skepticism about... the specific article we are on a thread talking about
JohnMakin 5 hours ago [-]
> largely unverifiable story
there’s literally pictures in the article of the bodies
5 hours ago [-]
0x3f 5 hours ago [-]
Merely that someone died seems to be a tiny fraction of the claims here.
JohnMakin 4 hours ago [-]
The claim is that the IDF shot his family. Even the IDF does not dispute this. What are you thinking this article is saying?
0x3f 3 minutes ago [-]
I'm not sure the IDF has confirmed who was killed, but even so the article goes much further than that. That it was a bad shoot, that the car was stationary, that no warnings were given, that the family did nothing to prompt it, that the IDF weren't legitimately mistaken, that the kid's injury is from the incident, that this kid was even there, that they spent 50+ rounds, that the kid who died has special needs. And more. You can literally just read the article and extract the facts. Those are uncomfirmed save by anecdote.
richwater 5 hours ago [-]
A photo of some people being buried doesn't confirm or deny the validity of the claim as to how they were killed.
I have no dog in this fight, but sources actually provide evidence.
JohnMakin 4 hours ago [-]
This is a journalistic article that does provide multiple sources of evidence - including multiple sources of eyewitness testimony, the facts of what happened to the car/damage to the bodies, what the IDF says happened, and the non-response by the IDF to the evidence presented here - what other evidence could possibly meet your bar here?
This doesn't seem like a good faith discussion by people that informed themselves on what this piece is saying, so I'm bowing out. Have a good one.
kshacker 5 hours ago [-]
We (and I) have become desensitized. When I saw one of these for the first time about 25 years ago, I was thinking about it for a week. Maybe longer. Because it was new, internet was new, and the video (not the same but it really does not matter) was the first time I saw it for ... real, felt it for real.
But after seeing a 100 of these, after knowing some of these are AI, after seeing news of a 1000 more ... I mean how is columbine or sandy hook different ... you see these but you eventually scroll up, sometimes immediately sometimes after a few seconds.
I am not making light of it just saying ... a lot of people at evil companies are also tuned out.
0x3f 5 hours ago [-]
Well, it's also compartmentalized isn't it. It's happening remotely, even if you're buliding the targetting systems or something like that. It's still all abstracted.
And as sympathetic as I might be otherwise, everyone is prone to dramatization and histrionics, which has a numbing tendency too. On both sides.
kshacker 3 hours ago [-]
Yes that's the other part. Suppose I build a high performance on-device caching solution that allows computes on a drone to run 10X faster ... I am not really thinking about the drone, just the caching solution
PS: I have no knowledge of drones or caching solutions. Just saying.
HDThoreaun 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
cogman10 4 hours ago [-]
Unfortunately, even in this comment section, you see people conflating the two. People don't realize that Palestinians live in both the west bank and gaza or that there are 2 different government for the west bank and gaza.
surgical_fire 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
cogman10 3 hours ago [-]
I agree, but I'd say it's important when pointing out how horrible this is you don't let the "they deserved it" narrative fly.
How Israel acts in the west bank is a testament to how poor their behavior in gaza is. They have no real justification for their evictions and murders of west bank citizens. They have no justification for turning a blind eye to settler violence. They have no justification for not punishing IDF soldiers who break theirs and international law.
HDThoreaun 3 hours ago [-]
Israel's plan to confuse people about what is happening in the west bank vs gaza is so effective that even their detractors are falling for it. Truly a genius strategy
surgical_fire 3 hours ago [-]
That's a good point actually.
dikozaken 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
4 hours ago [-]
throw310822 4 hours ago [-]
> it is very unfortunate and we as a society feel bad for this
> Sick pro palys...
Lol. And you as a society don't feel bad for illegally occupying and colonising other people's territory? Why don't you withdraw within your borders?
They already did that multiple times with no positive outcomes whatsoever, go learn some history
throw310822 4 hours ago [-]
No that actually never happened. The very day Israel declared its independence its army was already outside the territory proposed for it by the UN's partition plan. Israel itself never declared what its borders were.
aristofun 3 hours ago [-]
wrong
Here are only some examples of Israel compromising (land and other) for the sake of peace:
1. Hebron Protocol — 1997
2. Wye River Memorandum — 1998
3. Sharm el-Sheikh Memorandum — 1999
4. Gaza Disengagement Plan — 2005
5. Naharayim/Baqura and Tzofar/Ghamr special-regime expiration — 2019
Those only that were applied, many more offers were rejected by other side.
throw310822 2 hours ago [-]
Israel doesn't need to "compromise", Israel needs to withdraw from every inch of land that it occupies illegally. A few notes about the most significant examples you provided:
Netanyahu's statement on the Hebron protocol:
"We are using the time interval in the agreement to achieve our goals: to maintain the unity of Jerusalem [illegally occupied], to ensure the security depth necessary for the defence of the State, to insist on the right of Jews to settle in their land [i.e. further the illegal colonisation], and to propose to the Palestinians a suitable arrangement for self-rule but without the sovereign Powers which pose a threat to the State of Israel."
Wye River Memorandum- never implemented, Israel only withdrew from 2% of area C instead of the agreed 13%.
Gaza Disengagement Plan. In the words of Dov Weissglass, Sharon's senior adviser:
"The significance of the disengagement plan is the freezing of the peace process, and when you freeze that process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, and you prevent a discussion on the refugees, the borders and Jerusalem. Effectively, this whole package called the Palestinian state, with all that it entails, has been removed indefinitely from our agenda. And all this with authority and permission. All with a presidential blessing and the ratification of both houses of Congress. That is exactly what happened. You know, the term 'peace process' is a bundle of concepts and commitments. The peace process is the establishment of a Palestinian state with all the security risks that entails. The peace process is the evacuation of settlements, it's the return of refugees, it's the partition of Jerusalem. And all that has now been frozen.... what I effectively agreed to with the Americans was that part of the settlements would not be dealt with at all, and the rest will not be dealt with until the Palestinians turn into Finns. That is the significance of what we did."
chimineycricket 3 hours ago [-]
In all of these situations, settlements continued to be built.
fakedang 3 hours ago [-]
Well somebody didn't inform the settlers. Tell me why does Ma'ale Adumim even exist then?
HDThoreaun 4 hours ago [-]
Effective border control would be much easier to implement than the settlement program. In fact it largely has been working since the second intifada when they reinforced it. The west bank settlements make israel less safe, not more.
throw310822 3 hours ago [-]
As if Israel, a nuclear power under complete protection of the world's sole superpower, could have any trouble defending its border. Though of course, turning your neighbours into your friends through appeasement and cooperation would remove the need for such heightened defense. The only problem is that it would be the end of their dreams of territorial expansion and Greater Israel.
Fraterkes 5 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
kjksf 4 hours ago [-]
I'm a hacker. I find cooking interesting. Stories about cooking belong on HN.
Do you now see that it doesn't work like this?
Sgt_Apone 4 hours ago [-]
I mean, a simple search reveals hundreds of stories posted about cooking on HN.
avazhi 2 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
dikozaken 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
mattray0295 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
GalaxyNova 5 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
hugo1789 5 hours ago [-]
At least it's more interesting than all those AI stuff.
ipv6ipv4 4 hours ago [-]
It’s an interesting look into HN.
Charitably, this is an astroturf that accumulated 200+ upvotes in about 20 minutes, which I suspect is highly irregular for HN. Along, with a very clear concerted effort to quickly downvote anyone pointing out this is isn’t HN. If this is the case, what is HN admin doing about it?
Less charitably, HN is not where hackers hang out anymore. The hackers have moved on and HN is now this.
asdff 4 hours ago [-]
Interesting how this highlights a philosophical conundrum here that I'm not sure I have the answer to that goes beyond just forums. Do people make the community, or do rules make the community? I can envision arguments for both sides.
kjksf 4 hours ago [-]
Does it matter?
If HN gets invaded by people who want to discuss cooking and start submitting and upvoting cooking articles and HN turns into cooking discussion website? And once they get majority, they'll change the rules to make it exclusively about cooking.
It's still people, just different people. People who like cooking vs. people who like technology and startups.
There's no philosophical conundrum.
Do you want HN to be colonized by cooking people or not? That is the question.
I don't.
We need to stand our ground and repel colonizers who want to change the character of HN. Our unity is our strength.
longislandguido 4 hours ago [-]
People here prefer arguing about the rules (and alleged violations thereof) more than they do making concrete, substantive arguments.
ipv6ipv4 4 hours ago [-]
It’s the interaction of the two.
jazzpush2 4 hours ago [-]
You think, charitably, that this is an astroturf, really? What's the distribution of upvotes look like for front-page posts, binned in 20 minute intervals?
Reviewing your post history, it's overwhelmingly in non-tech related threads. This seems like a standard post for your tastes, semantically. Why then the sudden distaste?
gambiting 4 hours ago [-]
It absolutely does. Israel uses an AI system("Lavender") to decide which civilians to kill. I remind myself of this fact every single day when deciding where to apply my work. We(software developers) are more than ever exposed to the reality that our products will kill people in the real world.
IAmBroom 5 hours ago [-]
Flag and move on.
suthakamal 4 hours ago [-]
yes it does
sreejithr 2 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
dikozaken 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
handfuloflight 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
kelseyfrog 4 hours ago [-]
Don't worry, it will sadly get flagged like they tend to.
gambiting 4 hours ago [-]
I don't know if HN does, but I very much do. But yes, don't worry - it will get flagged and removed soon, no doubt.
nbnmbnmbnbm 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
vybandz 5 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
longislandguido 4 hours ago [-]
The technical answer is the bots pushed it over 30 points or thereabouts, so it became more difficult to kill with flags.
melenaboija 5 hours ago [-]
Well I guess let people vote and moderators do they work.
Maybe I need to see it at the top and then see it disappear to understand what I am looking at when reading HN first page.
vybandz 5 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
ge96 5 hours ago [-]
[dead]
LenaRyouna 4 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
jenders 3 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
shdudns 2 hours ago [-]
HN was never about technology, just things interesting people find interesting.
Its in the rules. And up to Dang to decide.
TheOtherHobbes 2 hours ago [-]
Technology isn't apolitical.
Too many people think of politics as a tribal team sport. It's not. Politics overlaps with tech because it's really about labelling situations accurately and modelling consequences effectively.
If you fail at those, politics can literally kill you.
Technology happens to be one of the ways it can do that.
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aristofun 4 hours ago [-]
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drraah 3 hours ago [-]
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twindongs 2 hours ago [-]
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cindyllm 2 hours ago [-]
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mygooch 5 hours ago [-]
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richwater 5 hours ago [-]
> the Zios
It's okay to just say you don't like Jews. Just be honest.
_account created 3 days ago_
juggerl7 5 hours ago [-]
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GalaxyNova 5 hours ago [-]
Zionism is the idea that the Jewish people deserve a national state. Being anti-Zionist is equivalent to wanting Israel to not exist as a national state.
bhouston 5 hours ago [-]
Zionism is currently realized as an apartheid system because there are too many non-Jews within the borders of Israel. The solution should have been two-states, but it seems that current Israeli leadership doesn't want that. So what is left? https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/9/11/israels-netanyahu-s...
worik 4 hours ago [-]
> The solution should have been two-states,
Perhaps. But at a lower level the solution is justice
TRiG_Ireland 5 hours ago [-]
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juggerl7 5 hours ago [-]
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juggerl7 5 hours ago [-]
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fourseventy 4 hours ago [-]
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marrone12 4 hours ago [-]
It's not collateral damage in the gaza war. This was a family in the west bank, where there is no hamas and no "war", that was gunned down in cold blood for no reason. Not even presenting a threat. I hope one day you are able to find compassion.
spacechild1 4 hours ago [-]
Which war? This happened in the West Bank!
lokar 3 hours ago [-]
For people who don't follow this, the West Bank has a different government vs Gaza (they are not friends!), and is in fact pretty compliant wrt Israel.
diego_moita 3 hours ago [-]
> Collateral damage is inevitable in any war.
"Collateral damage" is when "they" die. "Tragedy" is when "we" die.
Or, in other words: "Some of you might die. That's a sacrifice I am willing to make."
ErroneousBosh 4 hours ago [-]
This isn't a war, though. This is an extermination. This is an army with effectively limitless power against unarmed civilians.
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surgical_fire 4 hours ago [-]
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jonyt 3 hours ago [-]
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airforce1 3 hours ago [-]
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BeetleB 2 hours ago [-]
> Palestine is an impoverished community with a terrorist government that isn't afraid to commit atrocities against humanity
If you're going to comment on the conflict, at least learn to distinguish between The West Bank and Gaza.
x3ro 3 hours ago [-]
Please take your propaganda elsewhere. If Hamas or any other group in the region perpetrated any of the war crimes that Israel commits on any given day, every media outlet would be writing about it for weeks. In the meantime, Israel can bomb Gaza literally every day since the so-called ceasefire and nobody bats an eye. Israel just now acquitted its soldiers caught raping Palestinians in custody on camera. No coverage, no outcry. Israel is very objectively a bad guy, armed with nukes.
Restraint is not really in Israeli vocabulary, and the story being sold is a lie.
greekrich92 3 hours ago [-]
The West Bank is governed by the PLO, not Hamas, so it sounds like your concern is that you just don't wish to hear about it because it's an inconvenience.
fakedang 3 hours ago [-]
Terrorist government? This is the West Bank, which is currently governed by Fatah, which has global recognition as the rightful representative authority of the Palestinian people.
IshKebab 3 hours ago [-]
I think you're right. Obviously this is awful and the IDF shouldn't be doing this and should be held responsible (of course they won't). But it seems like the implicit message behind the story is Palestine good, Israel bad, which at best is a massive oversimplification.
otikik 3 hours ago [-]
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danbruc 3 hours ago [-]
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xyzelement 4 hours ago [-]
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xg15 4 hours ago [-]
> Only relevant because the conflict is often portrayed in terms of European Colonialism or US race dynamics.
What do you want to tell with this? That there are no race dynamics because some people have a lighter skin color?
No "Judeo-Christian civilization", no "Villa in the Jungle", no "Light unto the nations", nope...
worik 4 hours ago [-]
> about an incident involving New Zealanders and Maoris
Really?
Aotearoan here. Our racist history is shameful. Many massacres, both sides but mostly one way traffic.
Our history of "othering" indigenous people here in law was shameful too.
But seriously, and with all due respect, fuck you!!
We are facing up to our racist past, present and (Dog help us) future.
Tikanga Māori is joining our legal system.
Being openly racist to Māori is politically suicidal (some right wing politicians are giving it a go, and getting burnt for it)
Māori institutions are integrating themselves into all levels of our culture and society
And on and on. New Zealand is a Māori country, I am Pākehā, I have no problem with that, I belong here too. We (white people) are learning to share, learning there are more ways than our ways. Israel could learn from us, but...
The Isralies are utterly different. The violent homicidal, nay genocidal, racism of Israel is institutional.
Fuck you. For all we have our problems with racism, we are not genocidal racist violent thugs, as are the IDF representing the Israli state
beepbooptheory 4 hours ago [-]
Reminder that whatever you think, war, terrorism, questions of "the right/wrong target," etc are all insperable from AI and technology these days. These soldiers were where they were for concrete reasons dictated across vast automated networks; their choices of engagement are insperable from the tools either side (army and occupied population to be clear) here has or is perceived to have. War is simply many different "user stories," to put it coldly, and there is ethical and/or practical reasons, as technologists/scientists/academics, to see it that way (even if the goal is to just know thy enemy).
This is all why Anthropic is now a "supply-chain risk", why Thiel and Musk are particularly powerful persons-qua-tech-CEOs, why embedded microcontrollers getting so cheap (or whatever) enables drones instead of suicide bombs.
nirushiv 2 hours ago [-]
Sorry but this is so off topic. Does not belong here.
OutOfHere 3 hours ago [-]
If you listen to the news, Israel kills innocent people on a daily basis in Palestine and Lebanon. I am in no way justifying it, but it is a surprise that people choose to live in the West Bank despite such killings.
stanski 3 hours ago [-]
I think that's the point - to discourage (certain) people from living there at all. Except it turns out people are capable of never-ending suffering and persevering through it.
You would think Israelis would already know this very well.
overfeed 3 hours ago [-]
Choose?!
torlok 3 hours ago [-]
What's surprising is how nonchalantly people like you suggest victims should just surrender and leave. Exactly the same thing was told to Ukrainians after the invasion. The fucking audacity you people have is staggering.
OutOfHere 2 hours ago [-]
They can leave or they can fight. But they shouldn't just do nothing, which is what they're doing. Given how mismatched they are in power, the sensible thing to do is to merge the West Bank into Jordan if at all possible. As for Lebanon, it could merge into Syria or become an exclave of Turkey, etc.
gravisultra 2 hours ago [-]
What you're talking about is called ethnic cleansing.
perfmode 4 hours ago [-]
It’s hard not to wonder whether better technology could someday help stop tragedies like this.
noumenon1111 4 hours ago [-]
No. Better technology is only making it more efficient. We need better humanity, better morals, better policing of criminals in power.
otikik 2 hours ago [-]
That's misguided. Technology is a tool. Tools can be used for good or bad. The hammer that builds a hospital can also crack a skull open.
No, we need better people controlling the tools.
olelele 4 hours ago [-]
The israeli army are famous for their tech?
delecti 4 hours ago [-]
The Holocaust was built on IBM, the genocide in Gaza is built on Azure. Technology won't be on the side of stopping these tragedies.
Well, right now the "better technology" is Israel's use of the "Lavender" AI to designate people to kill because they are "likely" to be hamas supporters.
And yes, probably they could have used better technology to realize that people in the car are not a danger to them. But that would immply they actually want to avoid killing civilians instead of looking for any excuse to shoot them.
longislandguido 4 hours ago [-]
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tastyface 4 hours ago [-]
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zingley 5 hours ago [-]
* * *
bhouston 5 hours ago [-]
My understanding if you read the Israeli news articles is that the justification is that the car was going fast:
Given that the IDF involved were undercover agents (according to the reports), it seems unlikely that this family knew that driving fast would get them killed.
oa335 4 hours ago [-]
From the article, an eyewitness account:
> He told us the family car had just turned left into his street, facing uphill, and had come to a complete halt before any shots were fired, contradicting the Israeli army account.
I asked if he had heard any warnings given by the Israeli forces, or any warning shots fired.
"No, nothing," he said. "The firing directly targeted the car. I just heard the woman in the car screaming. The little kids were crying before they were killed."
Stevvo 5 hours ago [-]
Indeed. Often one of the key details omitted is that Israel has been illegally occupying the west bank since 1967 as part of an apartheid regime.
This is incredibly heart breaking, but unfortunately, in war, there are always casualties. This is the grim reality of war.
jakeinspace 2 hours ago [-]
Wasn't aware Israel had declared war on the West Bank.
buttsack 50 minutes ago [-]
Another dangerously stupid Zionist fucking retard
gravisultra 2 hours ago [-]
There is no war in the West Bank, this is ethnic cleansing.
hersko 58 minutes ago [-]
A classic "HN is not for politics unless it is about Palestine" post.
morgengold 3 hours ago [-]
I have no doubt isreali forces are responsible for a lot of war crimes. At the same time i see how one they cannot think and feel clearly anymore if your neighbours dream constantly about your elimination. All sides just need to stop with that hatred. It leads to so much pain.
wreath 3 hours ago [-]
> i see how one they cannot think and feel clearly anymore if your neighbours dream constantly about your elimination. All sides just need to stop with that hatred. It leads to so much pain.
I think by now we all know this is a straw man, considering the disproportionate amount of power both parties have. There is absolutely no excuse left for what Israel has been doing in Gaza.
mhb 1 hours ago [-]
Has Hamas left Gaza, given up its weapons, surrendered, or changed its charter?
adrian_b 2 hours ago [-]
This will never stop, because on both sides there are people who benefit from the existence of the conflict and they are the ones with power.
The last time when Israel had a PM who was willing to find a way for ending the conflict, he was murdered and replaced by those who want a perpetual conflict.
I have worked in Israel for some years, and the vast majority of people that I have encountered were very nice, but I have also seen a few that were definitely evil, and of course, the evil ones were concentrated in positions like the government or the management of companies.
Because most Israelis live in constant fear that if they would ever lose their technological and financial superiority their neighbors will come and cut their throats, when I was there, and I assume that also today, the majority of the population was exploited in a way that would not be possible in any other country.
Everybody had to work very hard, much harder than in any other country, and prioritize work over anything else, because this was a patriotic duty, like one might have worked in USA during WWII or in Ukraine today or in any country that is at war and its survival depends on how everyone works, except that in Israel the war has been continuous for three quarters of a century.
For the elites of the country this war economy is extremely desirable because they can demand any sacrifices from the workers, since those are supposedly not for increasing the profits of the company owners, but for ensuring the survival of the nation, and anyone who would not want to do what is required would be seen as a traitor.
For ending the conflict, it is not possible to just say that from tomorrow the parties in conflict should stop hating each other. Reparations would be necessary, like Israel itself has received plenty from Germany and other countries.
However, it is very unlikely that Israel will ever have a government willing to end the conflict, instead of keeping it alive as long as possible, to have something with which to scare the population.
gravisultra 2 hours ago [-]
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sreejithr 2 hours ago [-]
There's another 1000+ "invaders took my shit" issues in the world. Your logic only leads to non-stop fights between everyone
readitalready 2 hours ago [-]
There are no other countries in the world where the foreign invaders maintain an apartheid system over the native population. Only Israel does that, having one set of rights for the foreign invaders and another set of rights for the native Palestinians. Even the US allows native americans full citizenship.
gravisultra 2 hours ago [-]
Are any of them doing that with my tax dollars? Is my president starting wars on their behalf? Am I having my rights stripped to stop me from speaking out about any other situation? Nothing impacts Americans like Zionism, it's the #1 problem facing our nation.
ignoramous 1 hours ago [-]
> There's another 1000+ "invaders took my shit" issues in the world...
There's a lot less "invaders are continuing to take my shit". Probably a handful, and every such unresolved, escalating geo-political situation is pushing the world towards a dangerous timeline.
km3r 2 hours ago [-]
Except those people are dead. Those who ethnically cleansed Arabs (and Jews) during the nakba are dead. Almost everyone who was ethnicity cleansed is now dead. At a certain point you need to recognize that a new generation has been born into this conflict, and with it, a change in circumstances. Attitudes like yours ignore that Israelis who were born there don't have another home to 'return' to.
That doesn't mean that Palestinians don't have a right to resist occupation, but the circumstances are significantly materially different today then 40 years ago.
gravisultra 2 hours ago [-]
Joe Biden is older than the state of Israel and Zionists have continuously committed ethnic cleansing and apartheid since their inception. This is an active and current situation.
km3r 2 hours ago [-]
Joe Biden was 6 was israel was created. 6 year olds are not responsible for ethnic cleansing.
And yes, there is ongoing issues (from both sides), but solving the current situation is very different than solving the ethnic cleansing that happened in 1948.
moogly 3 hours ago [-]
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Rendered at 23:52:38 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-forces-kill-west-bank-...
https://www.ynetnews.com/article/p7mq5k5bs
The main justification floated is that the car was "going fast" and thus made the undercover Israeli soldiers feel unsafe.
The New York Times describes it as such:
"Ali Bani Odeh’s wife and four young boys hadn’t seen him in a month and a half when he came home to Tammun, in the West Bank, from his construction job in Israel late on Friday to spend the last few days of Ramadan with his family.
On Saturday night, the boys persuaded him to take them out for a drive. Eid al-Fitr, the end of Ramadan, was coming, so there were new clothes to buy. The day’s fast had been broken, so there were sweets to be had, too.
They picked up fried doughnut holes in Tubas, saving them for later, but the clothing shop they went to in Nablus was closed. It was already past midnight, so they headed back to Tammun: Khaled, 11, the oldest, in the back with Mustafa, 8, and Muhammad, 5. Othman, 6, blind and incapable of walking or feeding himself, was in his mother’s lap in front.
As they rounded a corner slowly, a few minutes from home, young Khaled and Mustafa recounted on Sunday, their mother, Waad, 35, asked her husband to pull over and take Othman from her so she could get something from her bag on the floor. Suddenly, the boys said, they saw laser pointers shining on their family from every direction, heard their mother scream, heard their father say “God is great” — and then heard a deafening fusillade of gunfire."
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/15/world/middleeast/palestin...
The people charged with enforcing the peace deploy lethal force with near impunity at the slightest "provocation" (a child throwing a stone, a car driving too fast); I wouldn't be surprised if IDF forces deployed to the West Bank are trained much like American police officers are, to operate in constant fear and perceive absolutely everything and everyone as a deadly threat to be neutralized. The soldiers themselves are raised in a culture with deeply racist undertones, making them all too ready to view any random Palestinian as a terrorist. Meanwhile, the bureaucracy that should be overseeing them works only to protect them. It's no surprise that things like this happen as often as they do.
Reform in the US is imaginable, I can and do believe, but it's much harder for me to imagine it in Israel - even much of the so-called left in Israel is too radicalized against Palestinians after 100 years of conflict, the Second Intifada, and October 7.
> The main justification floated is that the car was "going fast" and thus made the undercover Israeli soldiers feel unsafe.
"I feel unsafe" has become the catch-all excuse for everything in the recent decade. It's used to justify everything from Karen complaining about someone's behavior in public to people calling the cops on someone for looking at them wrong, to making a scene on a public bus, to police officers jumping the gun and escalating to violence, all the way to war crimes. When did "I feel unsafe" become this ultimate i-can-do-anything-and-avoid-responsibility card? Like a magic spell that you can cast before doing something crazy. It's like that old "He's coming right for us" South Park joke, but instead of being a joke it has real life and death consequences.
IDF trains them.
https://www.amnestyusa.org/blog/with-whom-are-many-u-s-polic...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrior_policing
The Amnesty article that you're citing is a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. The Baltimore Police Department did not need to learn about constitutional violations from the Israelis.
Ship out the jews, radicalize the natives, have the two of them fight for hundreds of years. It couldn't be a more British idea.
American police officers ARE trained much like IDF forces. By the IDF! https://jinsa.org/jinsa_program/homeland-security-program/
At least in the US, the police come from much the same communities as they patrol, and there's some sort of democratic accountability. Don't like the police? You can vote for local government candidates who will implement reforms.
In the West Bank, Palestinians are subject to arbitrary violence at the hands of foreign soldiers. The IDF is not there to protect Palestinians. It's there to protect the Israeli settlers who are taking Palestinian land. If Palestinians don't like how the IDF behaves, tough luck. Palestinians can't vote in Israeli elections, so they have zero say in the government that exercises ultimate authority over their lives.
This is a fundamentally different situation from policing in the US.
Deprogramming is possible. Just tell them it is impossible to argue it was their own idea. They know how hard it was rubbed in their face.
Is that it though? When one has historical reasons to expect being attacked, one must be vigilant and one must be trigger-ready.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_at...
The reality is, if you have soldiers mowing down children throwing rocks, mowing down families driving around, mowing down kids playing football, mowing down toddlers in their bedrooms, mowing down hundreds of people each year [1], you've over-indexed on vigilance and under-indexed on the value of human life. You're not trigger-ready, you're trigger-happy.
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6jhru-EqDA
[1] https://www.un.org/unispal/document/ohchr-press-release-17oc...
Be calm. Do not run. Talk clearly. Keep your hands visible. Did your parents not teach you?
But unless you are suggesting that laws should be not applied to those with kids, I am not sure why that matters? What do you suggest? I cannot wait for "kid" to be a number one accessory to bring to a heist then.
No-one, not even people who say they like technology but do not care about politics, should be able to live their life wihtout knowing that we live in a world where six-year old blind children are murdered with automatic assault rifles.
(For the same reason that no-one should be able to live not knowing that jewish once were murdered in the millions in gas chambers.)
Trying hard to embellish your language I see. Might I suggest "military style automatic tactical assault rifle"?
My impression is that topics that involve politics are tolerated, even encouraged. It's politically charged discourse such as yours that's not welcome. It's near impossible to have an intellectual exchange with a political pundit.
I wonder if any VC out there would fund my pitch for an AI enhanced military style automatic tactical assault rifle with a copilot 360 targeting integration to ensure our troops can noscope420 at all times as well as a blockchain layer for auditing discharge events.
Arabs are not responsible for WW2. Germans should give up their land!
Technology is a form of control. And in the capitalist system, this control is mostly exerted by private companies, on which the rules of democracy do not apply.
There must be guardrails
From the guidelines:
On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.
Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.
I'm curious because I sometimes wonder, if that happened to me, would it affect the way in which I engage with this website?
FWIW, I often lurk, but sometimes engage (like right now). Perhaps it could happen to me and I would not realize it for a while...
https://www.hrw.org/news/2026/03/13/in-the-shadow-of-war-set...
Now I'm not one to fall prey to the conspiracy theories around Judaism...but like...is it not possible to say that both hamas and the IDF do terrible things? And that innocent civilians are caught in between, with the usual bad faith reasons of "they were hiding hamas members" aka the exact same rhetoric that Russia used when accused of something terrible that they obviously did, deflection and formal outrage.
The very fact I feel I have to tread so carefully with my comment is an indication that something is seriously, seriously wrong. I don't live in China, I don't live in Russia. But when speaking about Israel or the IDF, I feel like I do.
I agree. Hamas and IDF do terrible things - the ICC issued warrants for the leaders of both. This is why an external party has to impose a solution and it should involve in my opinion separation (two-states.) Both parties are radicalized at least for now and need to be separated and allowed to manage their own affairs while allowing the other to exist.
HN being HN: this is a verifiable fact at any source you name.
The west bank isn't at war with Israel. There wasn't some conflict or event that has justified these actions.
I wish people understood this better. Even if you could manage to justify what's happening in gaza as "this is war", Gaza and the west bank are separate entities with separate governments. The west bank, in particular, is more like an Indian reservation in the US, with the Israeli government effectively exercising supremacy over all aspects of the government.
Theoretically, the IDF is supposed to be the police force for the west bank. That's why they occupy it.
Gaza and the West Bank aren't countries, they have no autonomy. Palestine isn't a country, it was once where Israel now sits, but hasn't been since the 40s.
Palestinians are people, must like Jews are people. Palestinians are the indigenous inhabitants of Israel, the west bank, and gaza.
Much like all Jews aren't responsible for the actions of Israel, All Palestinians aren't responsible for the actions of Hamas. Even the residence of Gaza.
In the 40s, the British were ruling Palestine as a mandate, I wouldn’t really call that a country.
Collective punishment is a war crime.
Except this situation has been going on like this for 60 years - with Israel, or the other western states having absolutely no plans to change anything about it (except making it even worse).
genocide 101
Israel has been using enormous amounts of force against the Palestinian people since then, with death tolls of _at least_ 100 dead Palestinians for every dead Israeli.
For a very good account of life in Israel around the time of Cast Lead I recommend Guy Delisle, brilliant diary in comic form.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem:_Chronicles_from_the...
His partner was working for Doctors Without Borders, the Israeli Army refused to let them enter Gaza to help the people suffering under their bombardments.
Not because the Palestinians don’t try to kill Israeli civilians though as I’m sure you’re aware.
MSF has admitted support for Hamas: https://x.com/eyakoby/status/2022741997832798572?s=46
HN is one of the most informative and least toxic communities and I’d appreciate if it would stay this way.
I don't think that's an accurate framing of the situation. It's a single post that enough people decided was worthy of being upvoted to the front page. I think allowing the community to decide is far more inline with the spirit of hacker news than the outright banning a category of posts.
It's a large part of the idea behind countries having constitutions for example.
(The 10x coverage number is from algolia hn search, the 10x worse number is from reported killings in the past year)
If Microsoft, Meta, Palantir, OpenAI, etc, were complicit in genocide in Sudan, Sudan would have much more attention.
The aggressor in the Gaza genocide is also pulling the rest of the west into new wars in the region. The war is also deeply connected with our defense and tech industries.
There is plenty of reason to discuss this war.
Generally, I think it's reasonable to pay more attention to conflicts where the own side is in the wrong. I don't need to demonstrate or raise awareness if my government is already acting like I'd want it to.
Sure. Let's spin the story on developments in laser-guided sniper rifle accuracy:
> Suddenly, the boys said, they saw laser pointers shining on their family from every direction, heard their mother scream, heard their father say “God is great” — and then heard a deafening fusillade of gunfire.
Your comment sounds toxic to me. It endorses silence in face of a genocide.
We discussed a lot other wars here without immediate technological or economic consequences: Ukraine, Iraq, etc.
Why not the genocide in Gaza & West Bank?
Toxic is saying politics needs to be kept separate. If we can't discuss how tech is literally fueling genocide, enslavement, and exploitation of people, then all other discussions tacitly serve those functions.
Most such stories never see the light of day. Hind Rajab is one such story which got some reasonable exposure [0]. I suppose this one will as well get due exposure at some point.
But the vast majority of similar atrocities will just vanish in the sands of time.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Hind_Rajab
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm2xrz71zm3o
> Israel's most senior military lawyer has said all charges against five soldiers accused of sexually abusing a Palestinian detainee from Gaza have been dropped.
Don't worry, they punished someone.
> It later emerged the CCTV video had been leaked by the then-Israeli Military Advocate General, Maj Gen Yifat Tomer-Yerushalmi, leading to her resignation and arrest.
Whereas I feel pure, hot rage at the lack of coverage, the lack of anybody caring. Raped men being offered paracetamol because the clinics after only for women has been seared into my brain for a long time now: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/jul/17/the-rape-of-....
Nothing has changed since then either.
https://mondoweiss.net/2024/08/the-main-suspect-in-the-sde-t...
It’s not that Palestinians haven’t been caught lying repeatedly. It’s that the overall setup is just obviously allowing for such things to happen.
I wonder if 80 years of quasi-state-of-war let some circles in the Israeli power structure realize, that more conflict means more power for them.
Anyways, if Israel looses support from people like me, the overall image is probably in the absolute gutter.
Not the OP, but many people do. I've changed my stance on similar topics multiple times in the past, based on new (to me, at least) evidence.
You have to look at the bigger picture. If they lose it's going to be a problem for all of us. Thus I have to support them.
And no I'm not a Trump supporter or Jewish or Israeli. The current operation in Iran is a fuck up. The whole thing that lead to 10-7 was a fuck up. It should have been dealt with years ago, preferably through diplomacy and threat of a strong hand rather than actually having to bomb the place.
There's no righteous side at all in this conflict.
What the actual fuck. Sorry, but you’re a fucking maniac.
That's literally the strategy of the Likud, who undermined the more moderate Fattah to allow the extremist Hamas to reign on the Gaza strip, hoping that one day the 7th of october would happen, and would let them unleash a genocide...
https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/netanyahu-money-...
Hopefully, such trigger-happy soldiers are in the minority.
The Israeli navy ships were built in German shipyards and subsidized 30%...
Yet I have known that Israel sails German subs (the best in the world) since.... the Greek financial crisis (the subs were part of the scandal) ? Certainly since the mid 2010s.
Why is this?
Is this something from the post-war or did that really exist?
“The Germans wanted a propaganda tool for [SS] visitors and camp newsreels and a tool to boost camp morale.”
There were also several men’s orchestras.
[0] https://www.ndr.de/geschichte/koepfe/Esther-Bejarano-Das-Erb...
I don't have sympathy or hated for either side, this is just a byproduct of being human.
I don't get your response in context of what I posted. There are truths, and pointing out someone that goes against that truth shouldn't have to worry about circumstances - especially if those circumstances have been widely documented to be violence since its inception.
Simply not true. The plan from the start was to take over the area for jews, see Ben Gurions private letters. Netanyahu has supported Hamas to make sure that Palestine couldn't be politically united to be able to continue taking over the west bank. The power balance has since long been tipped to one side that is engineering the situation.
That's a Ben Gurion quote, who was a socialist and believed in shared class struggle of Jews and Arabs. The rest of your comment is influenced by other lack of nuance
5 October 1937, Ben-Gurion wrote in a letter to his 16 year old son Amos: “We must expel the Arabs and take their places…. And, if we have to use force-not to dispossess the Arabs of the Negev and Transjordan, but to guarantee our own right to settle in those places- then we have force at our disposal.”
“It is very possible that the Arabs of the neighboring countries will come to their aid against us. But our strength will exceed theirs. Not only because we will be better organized and equipped, but because behind us there stands a still larger force, superior in quantity and quality …the whole younger generation of Jews from Europe and America.” Ben-Gurion, Zichronot [Memoirs], Vol. 4, p.297-299, p. 330-331. See also Teveth, Ben-Gurion and the Palestinian Arabs, p. 182-189
https://www.progressiveisrael.org/ben-gurions-notorious-quot...
Interesting to know that your quote is disputed in the original text, as to say the exact opposite.
In the context of Israel-Palestine, this issue is only raised in order to somehow justify Israeli oppression of the Palestinians, a la "They deserve it because they're not as enlightened as we are."
Consider that it doesn’t matter how genocidal Israel’s Islamicist neighbors are. The IDF occassionally targets civilians when they shouldn’t. Meanwhile Israel’s neighbors don’t even draw the distinction.
And look at surveys taken by European Muslims on their opinions on what should be done to gay people like me, when they can answer anonymously or think the surveyor is a fellow Muslim.
As the saying goes, religion and politics.
People are going to have varying and at times oppositional views to things like this, and frankly the rest of the internet is often flooded with those discussions, so bubbles isolated from them can be a positive.
We don't need to mourn the woes of the world every hour of every day.
Honestly, it looks like a lot of you are.
Human beings are generally at peace with tragedies outside their direct experience.
Including you.
But a recommendation: if you're so passionate about it, brow beating people on here is probably a less than optimal use of your time.
Go make a difference ey.
Only defense companies who profit and religious fucking idiots like you think war is some necessary thing.
(The eyewitness) told us the family car had just turned left into his street, facing uphill, and had come to a complete halt before any shots were fired, contradicting the Israeli army account. I asked if he had heard any warnings given by the Israeli forces, or any warning shots fired. "No, nothing," he said. "The firing directly targeted the car. I just heard the woman in the car screaming. The little kids were crying before they were killed."
The ZGF, zionist genocide force are the most ethical perverts in the world.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Either we allow _all_ political content or nothing.
The HN guidelines are incredibly grey and handwave-y
>Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.
To me HN became to big for its own good since the Covid days. It's like the reddit front page except there are no subs with mods but one big flood (basically /r/all).
If I got to /r/linux, /r/selfhosted/, /r/networking/ or other tech subs I'll probably find what I saw on HN 15 years ago. But less and less here.
Ban all politics, and you ban >99% of HN content. Heck, the very concept of HN itself is political!
What to Submit On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity. Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.
If the story was about a German national then yes, I would still say this is political and doesn't gratify my intellectual curiosity.
It's as far from hacking interest as it gets for me.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45202200 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47136179 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46543457
US Politics seems to get more of a pass, probably due to Silicon Valley being there (and nearly all the major tech outlets), similarly some China news gets a pass, also largely when it relates to supply chain and Taiwan.
This goes beyond US politics. The US and Israel do not exist in a bubble. This conflict can and will have big repercussions which will impact our technical and entrepreneurial institutions.
When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
In fact, here are some more such equally horrible actions of the israelis just in the recent days that you may not find on the western media ever.
1. Either the illegal settlers or the israeli occupation force themselves set a Palestinian boy on fire in Ramallah: https://x.com/dillyhussain88/status/2033528694833127569
2. An israeli ran over a 6 years old in front of her home in Hebron while she was playing: https://x.com/anadoluagency/status/2033226719986069866
3. Another israeli settler deliberately ran his car over a Palestinian child in the Nablus: https://x.com/angeloinchina/status/2033402402062434589
Historically, the western news media have always downplayed or completely ignored the persecution of Palestinians at every cost. Now due to rise of social media and citizen journalism, the israeli and zionist atrocities are coming out every single day hundreds of times, causing the abysmal distrust in these media outlets across the globe. To salvage their credibility, the western media now picking up some stories here and there, yet use the very artistic and convoluted language not to damage the image of the rogue zionist regime as much as possible. Journalists with conscience, who could not take anymore such order from their bosses, kept resigning from these news outlets:
* The New York Times - Anne Boyer: The Pulitzer Prize-winning poetry editor for The New York Times Magazine resigned in November 2023. In her resignation letter, she wrote that she could no longer work for the publication amidst the "reasonable tones of those who aim to acclimatize us to this unreasonable suffering" and "verbally sanitized hellscapes."
- Jazmine Hughes: An award-winning staff writer for The New York Times Magazine resigned in November 2023 after signing an open letter by "Writers Against the War on Gaza." The outlet stated the signing violated its policies on public protest.
- Jamie Lauren Keiles: A frequent contributor and writer for the magazine also resigned in solidarity with Hughes after signing the same open letter.
* BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation) - Karishma Patel: A presenter and journalist who walked out of the BBC in October 2024. She later published an essay in The Guardian criticizing the broadcaster's "obstructive editorial policy" and its decision to shelf the documentary Gaza: Doctors Under Attack.
- Bassam Bounenni: A veteran North Africa correspondent for BBC Arabic resigned in October 2023. He announced his departure on social media, stating it was for the sake of his "professional integrity" regarding the coverage of the escalation in Gaza.
- Noah Abrahams: A freelance sports reporter for the BBC resigned in October 2023 in protest of the broadcaster's refusal to use the word "terrorist" to describe Hamas, highlighting the internal friction over language and terminology.
* Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) - Nour Haydar: A political reporter in the Canberra bureau resigned in early 2024. She cited concerns over the broadcaster's coverage of the Gaza conflict and its treatment of culturally diverse staff as primary reasons for her departure.
* Reuters - Valerie Zink: A Canadian photojournalist who resigned from Reuters in August 2025. She publicly denounced the agency's coverage as a "betrayal of journalists," specifically citing an instance where the outlet allegedly published unsubstantiated claims from the Israeli military to justify the killing of a Palestinian colleague.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-forces-kill-west-bank-...
https://www.ynetnews.com/article/p7mq5k5bs
Yes driving fast means - execution.
Here is a good description from the New York Times:
"Ali Bani Odeh’s wife and four young boys hadn’t seen him in a month and a half when he came home to Tammun, in the West Bank, from his construction job in Israel late on Friday to spend the last few days of Ramadan with his family.
On Saturday night, the boys persuaded him to take them out for a drive. Eid al-Fitr, the end of Ramadan, was coming, so there were new clothes to buy. The day’s fast had been broken, so there were sweets to be had, too.
They picked up fried doughnut holes in Tubas, saving them for later, but the clothing shop they went to in Nablus was closed. It was already past midnight, so they headed back to Tammun: Khaled, 11, the oldest, in the back with Mustafa, 8, and Muhammad, 5. Othman, 6, blind and incapable of walking or feeding himself, was in his mother’s lap in front.
As they rounded a corner slowly, a few minutes from home, young Khaled and Mustafa recounted on Sunday, their mother, Waad, 35, asked her husband to pull over and take Othman from her so she could get something from her bag on the floor. Suddenly, the boys said, they saw laser pointers shining on their family from every direction, heard their mother scream, heard their father say “God is great” — and then heard a deafening fusillade of gunfire."
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/15/world/middleeast/palestin...
there’s literally pictures in the article of the bodies
I have no dog in this fight, but sources actually provide evidence.
This doesn't seem like a good faith discussion by people that informed themselves on what this piece is saying, so I'm bowing out. Have a good one.
But after seeing a 100 of these, after knowing some of these are AI, after seeing news of a 1000 more ... I mean how is columbine or sandy hook different ... you see these but you eventually scroll up, sometimes immediately sometimes after a few seconds.
I am not making light of it just saying ... a lot of people at evil companies are also tuned out.
And as sympathetic as I might be otherwise, everyone is prone to dramatization and histrionics, which has a numbing tendency too. On both sides.
PS: I have no knowledge of drones or caching solutions. Just saying.
How Israel acts in the west bank is a testament to how poor their behavior in gaza is. They have no real justification for their evictions and murders of west bank citizens. They have no justification for turning a blind eye to settler violence. They have no justification for not punishing IDF soldiers who break theirs and international law.
> Sick pro palys...
Lol. And you as a society don't feel bad for illegally occupying and colonising other people's territory? Why don't you withdraw within your borders?
This poem might interest u/dikozaken: https://youtu.be/aKucPh9xHtM
They already did that multiple times with no positive outcomes whatsoever, go learn some history
Here are only some examples of Israel compromising (land and other) for the sake of peace:
1. Hebron Protocol — 1997
2. Wye River Memorandum — 1998
3. Sharm el-Sheikh Memorandum — 1999
4. Gaza Disengagement Plan — 2005
5. Naharayim/Baqura and Tzofar/Ghamr special-regime expiration — 2019
6. Israel-Lebanon Maritime Boundary Agreement — 2022
Those only that were applied, many more offers were rejected by other side.
Netanyahu's statement on the Hebron protocol:
"We are using the time interval in the agreement to achieve our goals: to maintain the unity of Jerusalem [illegally occupied], to ensure the security depth necessary for the defence of the State, to insist on the right of Jews to settle in their land [i.e. further the illegal colonisation], and to propose to the Palestinians a suitable arrangement for self-rule but without the sovereign Powers which pose a threat to the State of Israel."
Wye River Memorandum- never implemented, Israel only withdrew from 2% of area C instead of the agreed 13%.
Gaza Disengagement Plan. In the words of Dov Weissglass, Sharon's senior adviser:
"The significance of the disengagement plan is the freezing of the peace process, and when you freeze that process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, and you prevent a discussion on the refugees, the borders and Jerusalem. Effectively, this whole package called the Palestinian state, with all that it entails, has been removed indefinitely from our agenda. And all this with authority and permission. All with a presidential blessing and the ratification of both houses of Congress. That is exactly what happened. You know, the term 'peace process' is a bundle of concepts and commitments. The peace process is the establishment of a Palestinian state with all the security risks that entails. The peace process is the evacuation of settlements, it's the return of refugees, it's the partition of Jerusalem. And all that has now been frozen.... what I effectively agreed to with the Americans was that part of the settlements would not be dealt with at all, and the rest will not be dealt with until the Palestinians turn into Finns. That is the significance of what we did."
Do you now see that it doesn't work like this?
Charitably, this is an astroturf that accumulated 200+ upvotes in about 20 minutes, which I suspect is highly irregular for HN. Along, with a very clear concerted effort to quickly downvote anyone pointing out this is isn’t HN. If this is the case, what is HN admin doing about it?
Less charitably, HN is not where hackers hang out anymore. The hackers have moved on and HN is now this.
If HN gets invaded by people who want to discuss cooking and start submitting and upvoting cooking articles and HN turns into cooking discussion website? And once they get majority, they'll change the rules to make it exclusively about cooking.
It's still people, just different people. People who like cooking vs. people who like technology and startups.
There's no philosophical conundrum.
Do you want HN to be colonized by cooking people or not? That is the question.
I don't.
We need to stand our ground and repel colonizers who want to change the character of HN. Our unity is our strength.
Reviewing your post history, it's overwhelmingly in non-tech related threads. This seems like a standard post for your tastes, semantically. Why then the sudden distaste?
Maybe I need to see it at the top and then see it disappear to understand what I am looking at when reading HN first page.
Its in the rules. And up to Dang to decide.
Too many people think of politics as a tribal team sport. It's not. Politics overlaps with tech because it's really about labelling situations accurately and modelling consequences effectively.
If you fail at those, politics can literally kill you.
Technology happens to be one of the ways it can do that.
It's okay to just say you don't like Jews. Just be honest.
_account created 3 days ago_
Perhaps. But at a lower level the solution is justice
"Collateral damage" is when "they" die. "Tragedy" is when "we" die.
Or, in other words: "Some of you might die. That's a sacrifice I am willing to make."
If you're going to comment on the conflict, at least learn to distinguish between The West Bank and Gaza.
(https://youtu.be/RJhqGDZbqBI?si=MQFuah6er7TvHcaD)
Or is it the Israel that deliberately destroys crops (https://youtu.be/Lyp9Xfess3Q?si=1_4usvB1yjgYhKSb)?
Maybe it’s the Israel that ignores ceasefires (http://youtube.com/post/Ugkxn4SkyNfKESV6nPO_ZzgOhdaH8lb_FAkx...) or fills in wells (http://youtube.com/post/UgkxaPo3ERDtr5fQKPAHnFgxwYkMaEeMgdlo...)
Or it could be the Israel that shoots and kills 234 peaceful protestors (https://www.972mag.com/gaza-return-march-idf/)
Restraint is not really in Israeli vocabulary, and the story being sold is a lie.
What do you want to tell with this? That there are no race dynamics because some people have a lighter skin color?
No "Judeo-Christian civilization", no "Villa in the Jungle", no "Light unto the nations", nope...
Really?
Aotearoan here. Our racist history is shameful. Many massacres, both sides but mostly one way traffic.
Our history of "othering" indigenous people here in law was shameful too.
But seriously, and with all due respect, fuck you!!
We are facing up to our racist past, present and (Dog help us) future.
Tikanga Māori is joining our legal system.
Being openly racist to Māori is politically suicidal (some right wing politicians are giving it a go, and getting burnt for it)
Māori institutions are integrating themselves into all levels of our culture and society
And on and on. New Zealand is a Māori country, I am Pākehā, I have no problem with that, I belong here too. We (white people) are learning to share, learning there are more ways than our ways. Israel could learn from us, but...
The Isralies are utterly different. The violent homicidal, nay genocidal, racism of Israel is institutional.
Fuck you. For all we have our problems with racism, we are not genocidal racist violent thugs, as are the IDF representing the Israli state
This is all why Anthropic is now a "supply-chain risk", why Thiel and Musk are particularly powerful persons-qua-tech-CEOs, why embedded microcontrollers getting so cheap (or whatever) enables drones instead of suicide bombs.
You would think Israelis would already know this very well.
No, we need better people controlling the tools.
And yes, probably they could have used better technology to realize that people in the car are not a danger to them. But that would immply they actually want to avoid killing civilians instead of looking for any excuse to shoot them.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-forces-kill-west-bank-...
Given that the IDF involved were undercover agents (according to the reports), it seems unlikely that this family knew that driving fast would get them killed.
> He told us the family car had just turned left into his street, facing uphill, and had come to a complete halt before any shots were fired, contradicting the Israeli army account. I asked if he had heard any warnings given by the Israeli forces, or any warning shots fired. "No, nothing," he said. "The firing directly targeted the car. I just heard the woman in the car screaming. The little kids were crying before they were killed."
I think by now we all know this is a straw man, considering the disproportionate amount of power both parties have. There is absolutely no excuse left for what Israel has been doing in Gaza.
The last time when Israel had a PM who was willing to find a way for ending the conflict, he was murdered and replaced by those who want a perpetual conflict.
I have worked in Israel for some years, and the vast majority of people that I have encountered were very nice, but I have also seen a few that were definitely evil, and of course, the evil ones were concentrated in positions like the government or the management of companies.
Because most Israelis live in constant fear that if they would ever lose their technological and financial superiority their neighbors will come and cut their throats, when I was there, and I assume that also today, the majority of the population was exploited in a way that would not be possible in any other country.
Everybody had to work very hard, much harder than in any other country, and prioritize work over anything else, because this was a patriotic duty, like one might have worked in USA during WWII or in Ukraine today or in any country that is at war and its survival depends on how everyone works, except that in Israel the war has been continuous for three quarters of a century.
For the elites of the country this war economy is extremely desirable because they can demand any sacrifices from the workers, since those are supposedly not for increasing the profits of the company owners, but for ensuring the survival of the nation, and anyone who would not want to do what is required would be seen as a traitor.
For ending the conflict, it is not possible to just say that from tomorrow the parties in conflict should stop hating each other. Reparations would be necessary, like Israel itself has received plenty from Germany and other countries.
However, it is very unlikely that Israel will ever have a government willing to end the conflict, instead of keeping it alive as long as possible, to have something with which to scare the population.
There's a lot less "invaders are continuing to take my shit". Probably a handful, and every such unresolved, escalating geo-political situation is pushing the world towards a dangerous timeline.
That doesn't mean that Palestinians don't have a right to resist occupation, but the circumstances are significantly materially different today then 40 years ago.
And yes, there is ongoing issues (from both sides), but solving the current situation is very different than solving the ethnic cleansing that happened in 1948.