Forgive the naivety, but what graphical Linux apps are people trying to run that don’t have native MacOS builds? In my experience, Linux GUIs are generally written in Qt or GTK, both of which are multi-platform.
I don’t doubt that they exist, I’m just struggling to think of a popular example.
jon-wood 4 hours ago [-]
This is very interesting to me for two reasons:
1. I'd really like to run my development environment for things under Siri for its tiling window management but for better or worse I'm deeply embedded in the Apple ecosystem for everything else, this looks like it could be a really nice way of doing it (possibly once multi monitor support is in).
2. There are still a few applications which have supported Linux builds but no support for macOS (Iridium's Niagara Workbench application for configuration of building management systems springs to mind here). Since Apple ended support for Quartz this has been a bit of a pain to deal with.
ubercow13 3 hours ago [-]
Apart from just running Linux apps, you can use this to run graphical applications remotely on a Linux server, like X11 forwarding.
pkaeding 2 hours ago [-]
I thought Wayland was different from X11, and didn't allow this. But I'm far from an expert on this topic so I'd like to learn more.
According to that page Wayland's architecture is simpler than X11.
chrismorgan 2 hours ago [-]
https://github.com/neonkore/waypipe proxies Wayland over a network. It’s straightforward enough in theory: Wayland core is just a communications protocol plus shared memory; so you just need to forward the messages, and detect and send changes in the shared memory. Not the cheapest thing, but perfectly tractable. Of course, there are also more difficult extensions, like GPU integration, but that sort of thing was a problem for X as well.
TingPing 1 hours ago [-]
This is how modern x11 worked too since nobody uses software rendering with x primitives anyway.
xlmnxp 4 hours ago [-]
I want to use KDE Plasma instead of Mac OS ugly (in my opinion) interface
vovavili 4 hours ago [-]
This is possibly the first time in human history this opinion has been stated.
hnlmorg 3 hours ago [-]
It really isn’t. There are a great many people who use macs for work but who do not like Apples design choices. And that number has skyrocketed even further since Liquid Glass was pushed onto people.
In fact one of the front page articles today is literally calling macOS “ugly” in the title.
polshaw 4 hours ago [-]
I don't want KDE but I would much prefer gnome to macos desktop, I think it's both prettier and more functional, and that's not a tahoe thing. I hate finder too, and don't see any way to properly use an alternative.
ozgrakkurt 27 minutes ago [-]
not sure about the looks but I also find KDE much better in usability
layer8 3 hours ago [-]
Similar opinions are voiced in about every recent macOS UI thread, and even occasionally in Windows threads.
Imustaskforhelp 3 hours ago [-]
To be honest, I agree a little bit because I remember from my time at customizing KDE that everyone wanted it to make it look like Mac OS
but it feels a bit of peer-pressure/cool-factor, people used to like how Mac OS look but after Tahoe, I feel like most people don't.
To be honest, I am on mac right now but I really like Niri/Hyprland and to a degree KDE as well. I definitely feel like those were immensely more customizable and I miss that customizability, even if some people might use that customizability to make it look like MacOS default.
sersi 4 hours ago [-]
I mean Apple hasn't done itself any favours with Macos Tahoe.
drob518 1 hours ago [-]
“Liquid Ass” as some people say.
coldtea 2 hours ago [-]
Then you want to run KDE on Linux. This is not going to replace your native mac desktop environment.
MarsIronPI 2 hours ago [-]
Honest question: why use MacOS at all then? If you prefer KDE, why not run a system that KDE natively supports? Is it a particular MacOS application? Or is it that Linux support on Mac hardware is not good enough?
TingPing 1 hours ago [-]
Linux has good support for m1 and m2, so for newer devices running a custom desktop would be neat.
audunw 4 hours ago [-]
Popular apps? Probably not many.
But in the field of integrated circuit design there’s lots of apps that are Linux-only. I’ve tried to run some of them in containers on Mac. But XQuartz is awful.
If they ever transitioned to Wayland perhaps this would let us run these apps on Mac in a nice way.
On the other hand some of them have started getting ARM builds (for running simulations on certain cloud environments) so maybe native Mac GUI builds could happen someday soon.
MBCook 59 minutes ago [-]
What about this plus XWayland? Would that do it?
boschetto 4 hours ago [-]
I think there are many use cases for this software.
For example, you may not want to run some graphical applications directly on your Mac for security, isolation or testing purposes.
If this software turns out to be lower latency than RDP and CRD, I could also see it being very useful for accessing a remote graphical workstation (e.g.: running heavy software on an beefy machine in a data center instead of taking up resources on my skinny laptop).
OJFord 4 hours ago [-]
It's not necessarily something only available for Linux, but something that you want to containerise. (And then it's inherently running on Linux.)
okayokay123 2 hours ago [-]
Emacs runs much faster and better on Linux VMs. And I have a VM for each client I work with.
hrmtst93837 3 hours ago [-]
Try building Inkscape or GIMP from source on macOS and see how "multi-platform" those GTK apps feel in practice. Even when a Mac build exists, it is often skinned oddly or lags because somebody has to carry Mac patches against an old fork.
This is for the long tail. The compositor path dodges a pile of volunteer-port churn and runs the Linux build directly, which is a lot more appealing for niche GUI tools and dev apps that barely get maintained on Linux, never mind macOS.
pajko 2 hours ago [-]
PuTTY
coldtea 2 hours ago [-]
That's a Windows app.
alt219 1 hours ago [-]
PuTTY is absolutely available for Linux. On Debian-based distros it’s just a `sudo apt install putty` away. But why?
skrrtww 26 minutes ago [-]
This looks like slop? The README is full of emojis and kind of incoherent, there are no implementation details, there claims to be a Metal backend that doesn't seem to exist, etc.
Perfect.. this will allow me to run GUI apps in a container.
I did a similar thing with X11, but I didn't like so much.
Bit by bit, Apple is loosing it's Desktop position. It all starts at the developers. At soon, every person will be a "developer".
jbverschoor 52 minutes ago [-]
In reply to then throwaway.
Anything I want sandboxed or “grouped”.
Work on a project -> open the relevant container.
Similar to parallels window integration mode.
It’s all from shortcomings to have a hierarchical view on your data and applications.
Goal: isolation. Security-wise, and focus-wise
throwaway613746 2 hours ago [-]
[dead]
BirAdam 2 hours ago [-]
Now, if only macOS still had the ability to drop to a Darwin shell without a GUI at all… we could just have a nice UNIX with something like KDE or COSMIC, brew as our package manager… what a dream.
MarsIronPI 2 hours ago [-]
But why MacOS then? If you take away the interface what differentiates Darwin from FreeBSD or GNU?
BirAdam 60 minutes ago [-]
That it will actually run on Apple Silicon.
TBH, I would love to install GNU or BSD on my M4 Max Mac Studio. What I really wanted is a modern UNIX workstation. My Studio’s price/performance was the best available, so that’s what I bought. Now, I am happy with that purchase except for the constant diminution in software quality from Apple.
1 hours ago [-]
komali2 1 hours ago [-]
Performance on apple chipsets!
kogasa240p 31 minutes ago [-]
Wonder if this will bring at least a tiny amount of interest to GNUstep.
tsuru 3 hours ago [-]
Wow. Would this allow a macos-based wayland-client to create an EGL surface?
Imustaskforhelp 4 hours ago [-]
Very interesting, can this run something like android using waydroid within Orbstack too?
It would then essentially run android on macos as well, I do feel like it should be possible.
IshKebab 3 hours ago [-]
Neat, but wouldn't it be better to have the windows as "seamless"? I.e. not contained within another window.
anArbitraryOne 4 hours ago [-]
Now if we could switch MacOS to use Win/Linux keyboard commands, MacOS wouldn't be so insufferable
cpuguy83 2 hours ago [-]
Sorry having to use ctrl+shift for in a terminal is absolutely awful.
macOS keyboard shortcuts are king.
dagi3d 1 hours ago [-]
agree. I guess it's a force of habit, but I am so used to the cmd+<whatever> (specially copy & paste) shortcuts, that I configured them into my linux desktop to behave the same way
drob518 1 hours ago [-]
Being limited to just control and alt definitely cuts down on the options. Conversely, having MacOS command key act as “super” in Emacs opens up some possibilities.
jurmous 3 hours ago [-]
Many of the keyboard commands are configurable in settings, complete with switching cmd and ctrl keys around.
Or you can get used in a week or two when switching, this is what I did years ago and now for me Win/Linux is confusing and find the location of the command key more ergonomic on a Mac.
Incredibly L take.
macOS keyboard commands are great for working in the terminal since system shortcuts use a different key and don't interfere with control codes
drob518 1 hours ago [-]
Exactly. You don’t have the terminal itself fight with whatever is running on the other side of the term.
rick_dalton 3 hours ago [-]
Super key for most keybinds is much nicer than windows in my opinion, where it is entirely wasted on opening the start menu. On Linux it gains a few functions based on the desktop environment but not much.
layer8 3 hours ago [-]
The use of the Windows key extends far beyond the start menu. Builtin functions include window management, invoking programs on the taskbar, locking the computer, invoking Explorer and Settings, invoking and controlling accessibility functions like Magnifier. The Microsoft Power Toys add a lot of functions using the Windows key by default as well, like screen snipping, screen OCR, color picking, enhanced clipboard, and many more.
rick_dalton 2 hours ago [-]
My problem is that I don’t use the majority of these functions at all. Command I can use for almost everything no matter how frequent or infrequent. It also replaces most “ctrl+shift” binds which is a great plus for me.
daveidol 3 hours ago [-]
That’s still like 10 uses vs unlimited uses on macOS
drob518 1 hours ago [-]
You must not use MacOS. Command gets used all over the place, even during editing. And in Emacs it gets used as Super, which opens up some options.
layer8 1 hours ago [-]
Even just the window management category is more than ten uses. And it is unlimited uses, as you can assign additional shortcuts however you like.
freedomben 2 hours ago [-]
It may be ten uses, but it's ten uses I use constantly throughout the day.
p-e-w 4 hours ago [-]
I mean, you can simply use Linux and save yourself all those hacks…
anArbitraryOne 4 hours ago [-]
Absolutely. I went through great lengths to install Asahi on my work M1, only to have most things not work (RTFM). So when one is forced to use MacOS, may it round corners in hell, for work…
Yeah I've used Karabiner to get windows-style shortcuts (home/end, etc.) and it works very well.
drob518 1 hours ago [-]
Aside: the new, large radius Liquid Ass corners that make some parts of the window basically unusable are really annoying me.
throwaway613746 2 hours ago [-]
As someone that switches between MacOS (dayjob) and Linux (my own PCs) workstations daily - I wish I could do the opposite for Linux. MacOS keyboard shortcuts are just way more intuitive to me, and they are way more consistent across applications.
pugchat 1 hours ago [-]
[dead]
Rendered at 15:29:48 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
I don’t doubt that they exist, I’m just struggling to think of a popular example.
1. I'd really like to run my development environment for things under Siri for its tiling window management but for better or worse I'm deeply embedded in the Apple ecosystem for everything else, this looks like it could be a really nice way of doing it (possibly once multi monitor support is in).
2. There are still a few applications which have supported Linux builds but no support for macOS (Iridium's Niagara Workbench application for configuration of building management systems springs to mind here). Since Apple ended support for Quartz this has been a bit of a pain to deal with.
In fact one of the front page articles today is literally calling macOS “ugly” in the title.
but it feels a bit of peer-pressure/cool-factor, people used to like how Mac OS look but after Tahoe, I feel like most people don't.
To be honest, I am on mac right now but I really like Niri/Hyprland and to a degree KDE as well. I definitely feel like those were immensely more customizable and I miss that customizability, even if some people might use that customizability to make it look like MacOS default.
But in the field of integrated circuit design there’s lots of apps that are Linux-only. I’ve tried to run some of them in containers on Mac. But XQuartz is awful.
If they ever transitioned to Wayland perhaps this would let us run these apps on Mac in a nice way.
On the other hand some of them have started getting ARM builds (for running simulations on certain cloud environments) so maybe native Mac GUI builds could happen someday soon.
For example, you may not want to run some graphical applications directly on your Mac for security, isolation or testing purposes.
If this software turns out to be lower latency than RDP and CRD, I could also see it being very useful for accessing a remote graphical workstation (e.g.: running heavy software on an beefy machine in a data center instead of taking up resources on my skinny laptop).
This is for the long tail. The compositor path dodges a pile of volunteer-port churn and runs the Linux build directly, which is a lot more appealing for niche GUI tools and dev apps that barely get maintained on Linux, never mind macOS.
The dependency list is also...something: https://github.com/J-x-Z/cocoa-way/tree/main/vendor
I did a similar thing with X11, but I didn't like so much.
Bit by bit, Apple is loosing it's Desktop position. It all starts at the developers. At soon, every person will be a "developer".
Anything I want sandboxed or “grouped”.
Work on a project -> open the relevant container.
Similar to parallels window integration mode.
It’s all from shortcomings to have a hierarchical view on your data and applications.
Goal: isolation. Security-wise, and focus-wise
TBH, I would love to install GNU or BSD on my M4 Max Mac Studio. What I really wanted is a modern UNIX workstation. My Studio’s price/performance was the best available, so that’s what I bought. Now, I am happy with that purchase except for the constant diminution in software quality from Apple.
It would then essentially run android on macos as well, I do feel like it should be possible.
Here some history on how the command key came to be https://www.folklore.org/Swedish_Campground.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_key