One of the most interest facts about this disaster is that if the submarine was standing on its tail straight up, its nose would be sticking 150ft OUT of the water it sunk in.
petepete 4 hours ago [-]
It was 155m long and the ocean was 108m deep, in case anyone else was wondering.
niwtsol 2 hours ago [-]
I didn't realize how big the submarine actually was
I think I read something similar about the Edmund Fitzgerald i.e. it sank in water that was less deep than the length of the ship.
thedanbob 5 hours ago [-]
And yet even in that shallow of water the pressure would have been around 10 atm. It's amazing how dangerous something as mundane as water can be.
watwut 3 hours ago [-]
This is the first time I see someone refer to 100m deep as shallow.
QuantumNomad_ 2 hours ago [-]
It only takes a little over a minute to walk 100m. And if I stand at point A and look at point B, 100m away, it doesn’t feel far away either.
That’s why I think even though I am only able to swim what 4 meters or something down, maybe less, 100m under the water sounds really little for a submarine. Also probably because I have no experience with submarines so I was imagining that for the most part they would be many hundred meters under the sea level.
stronglikedan 3 hours ago [-]
it's all relative!
lencastre 5 hours ago [-]
nothing but respect for water
atomicnumber3 5 hours ago [-]
Definitely a strong contender for favorite 3-atom molecule
HoldOnAMinute 10 minutes ago [-]
Sangamon's Principle
jtbaker 3 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
kelnos 1 hours ago [-]
Similarly, a human can drown in only a few inches of water, not even enough to fully submerge you while lying face first in it, let alone while standing.
Water is not to be trifled with.
drivebyhooting 3 hours ago [-]
High Test Peroxide is incredibly dangerous. Even a slight contaminant can catalyze a runaway decomposition. This is the main reason HTP has been abandoned as a storable propellant.
headsman771 45 minutes ago [-]
> Dutch company Mammoet was awarded a contract in May 2001 and, within three months, designed, fabricated, and deployed over 3,000 tonnes of custom equipment aboard a specially modified barge.
Impressive, particularly by today's standards.
jvuygbbkuurx 5 hours ago [-]
That is an absolute unit. The photos at the end with people inside the wreck put it in perspective.
fusslo 4 hours ago [-]
The description of the survivors last hours is horrifying.
LgWoodenBadger 2 hours ago [-]
I'm surprised 5-7 torpedo warheads detonating didn't do more damage to it. About 2750kg-4000kg of high explosive.
bluGill 8 minutes ago [-]
They are designed for war. They have to assume that it will be hit at some point - you still want it to return as many of the highly trained people on board back home as possible. If you can repair it so much the better. They can't always meet this goal (the enemy goal is to make that impossible), but it is a design goal of any reasonable navy.
serf 1 hours ago [-]
nuclear submarines are first and foremost built as a protective sarcophagus for the powerplant, and that's on top of submarines being designed to compartmentalize damage, anyway.
i.e. if it could totally destroy itself with a full payload that'd be a very bad design choice, not that there wasn't plenty of bad choices wrt the kursk.
The story depresses me a little. One of the greatest engineering marvels in history, destroyed by stereotypical Russian negligence, incompetence and corruption and more then 100 lives lost in the process. The Soviets for all their many sins were at least capable of building incredible things, the protections on the nuclear reactor held up, for example, preventing a massive environmental catastrophe.
giraffe_lady 4 hours ago [-]
It's stereotypical now but I remember at the time this was taken as a kind of confirmation that russia had been coasting on and also neglecting a lot of the soviet-era infrastructure. It's hard to reflect back now but in 2000 the soviet collapse was recent memory and the role and effectiveness of its successor was an open question, internationally.
I do remember that in the 90s the "russia understanders" were split into two camps: now that russia is free of the shackles of communism it will step into its destiny as supreme global superpower vs the soviet system was actually quite effective at large scale mundane infrastructure & logistics in a way the russian federation isn't.
By 2000 the weight of evidence was already fairly strong for the second view but this disaster, and especially their response to it, really settled the matter. This is how I remember feeling about it all anyway.
hencq 2 hours ago [-]
I also remember how frustrating and depressing it was that they wouldn’t allow foreign teams to help with the rescue effort. At the time it was clear that the Russians lacked the capabilities to do it. I also think in hindsight it was a sign how little interest Russia had in being part of the West.
vkou 29 minutes ago [-]
You should look into the history of the 90s again.
Russia opened up to the West in a big way in the first half of the decade, and worked with NATO and the UN in the first half of the Bosnian war.
The result was... A complete collapse of the domestic economy, and a second half of the Bosnian war where NATO no longer felt like it needed to get Russia on board to do whatever it wanted in the region.
The degradation of this relationship was not the fault of a single party. Clinton and Yeltsin (an utter turd of a man) worked hard to have a productive relationship, but then Bush gets elected and takes a more... Unipolar view of the world. As does Putin.
Gagarin1917 4 hours ago [-]
Russia had roughly half the population as compared to the Soviet Union. There’s just no way they could have ever competed on the global stage the same way.
bluGill 5 minutes ago [-]
Sweden's population is tiny, but by working with "the west" they gain from everything everyone else does. Russia has isolated themselves (both directly and in doing things that made others want to isolate them), and thus cannot benefit from what others do near as much.
mitthrowaway2 4 hours ago [-]
If one took the view that communism was holding back roughly half of their their potential, then it would have been a reasonable prediction.
Gagarin1917 2 hours ago [-]
No, it wouldn’t have. Only with cetera peribus would that make any sense. And losing half your population is not “all other things being equal.”
It’s a major difference that has a huge impact on output and relative standing globally.
ge96 4 hours ago [-]
Damn that's crazy seeing Putin back in 2000
andyjohnson0 2 hours ago [-]
He had the same dead look as he does today.
Klaster_1 6 hours ago [-]
[removed]
pavel_lishin 5 hours ago [-]
Reading a note written by a sailor, in the dark, by feel, estimating his changes to be 10%, certainly felt haunting to me.
Mikhail_Edoshin 5 hours ago [-]
Chomsky wrote that Western media publishes only what is "useful" for certain ends, usually political. So you think the article is useful, don't you?
brookst 6 hours ago [-]
I found the story and photos entirely haunting. Those sailers had no chance.
tokai 4 hours ago [-]
The survivors possibly had a change if Russia had accepted the offer for help from the Norwegian rescue divers right away.
gbuk2013 4 hours ago [-]
From the article
> Analysts concluded that 23 sailors survived the initial blasts and took refuge in the small ninth compartment at the rear of the submarine.
> Evidence suggests they remained alive for more than six hours. When oxygen grew scarce, they attempted to replace a potassium superoxide chemical oxygen cartridge, but it fell into the oily seawater pooling on the floor and exploded on contact.
> The resulting fire killed several crew members and triggered a flash fire that consumed what remained of the oxygen, asphyxiating the last survivors.
That does not suggest a possibility of a foreign rescue vessel making it there in time.
WithinReason 3 hours ago [-]
Also:
"No search was launched for more than six hours."
"It ultimately took over 16 hours to locate the stricken vessel, which lay on the seabed at a depth of 108 meters (354 feet)."
infecto 6 hours ago [-]
Found it pretty haunting myself. You could pick a different descriptive word but haunting fits.
ahhhhnoooo 6 hours ago [-]
I found several photos haunting.
giraffe_lady 6 hours ago [-]
Being able to look at a full actual likeness of a person who is dead is incomprehensibly novel to human experience. It has never stopped giving me chills.
Rendered at 19:42:45 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
- Ohio class - US' largest: 18,750 tonnes displaced submerged, 170m long, 13m beam
- Typohoon-class - USSR's biggest: 48,000 tonnes displaced, 175m long, 23m beam
- Oscar II-class (Kursk) - 19,400 tonnes submerged, 154m long, 18.2m beam
That’s why I think even though I am only able to swim what 4 meters or something down, maybe less, 100m under the water sounds really little for a submarine. Also probably because I have no experience with submarines so I was imagining that for the most part they would be many hundred meters under the sea level.
Water is not to be trifled with.
Impressive, particularly by today's standards.
i.e. if it could totally destroy itself with a full payload that'd be a very bad design choice, not that there wasn't plenty of bad choices wrt the kursk.
Kursk, by The Vad Vuc
I do remember that in the 90s the "russia understanders" were split into two camps: now that russia is free of the shackles of communism it will step into its destiny as supreme global superpower vs the soviet system was actually quite effective at large scale mundane infrastructure & logistics in a way the russian federation isn't.
By 2000 the weight of evidence was already fairly strong for the second view but this disaster, and especially their response to it, really settled the matter. This is how I remember feeling about it all anyway.
Russia opened up to the West in a big way in the first half of the decade, and worked with NATO and the UN in the first half of the Bosnian war.
The result was... A complete collapse of the domestic economy, and a second half of the Bosnian war where NATO no longer felt like it needed to get Russia on board to do whatever it wanted in the region.
The degradation of this relationship was not the fault of a single party. Clinton and Yeltsin (an utter turd of a man) worked hard to have a productive relationship, but then Bush gets elected and takes a more... Unipolar view of the world. As does Putin.
It’s a major difference that has a huge impact on output and relative standing globally.
> Analysts concluded that 23 sailors survived the initial blasts and took refuge in the small ninth compartment at the rear of the submarine.
> Evidence suggests they remained alive for more than six hours. When oxygen grew scarce, they attempted to replace a potassium superoxide chemical oxygen cartridge, but it fell into the oily seawater pooling on the floor and exploded on contact.
> The resulting fire killed several crew members and triggered a flash fire that consumed what remained of the oxygen, asphyxiating the last survivors.
That does not suggest a possibility of a foreign rescue vessel making it there in time.
"No search was launched for more than six hours."
"It ultimately took over 16 hours to locate the stricken vessel, which lay on the seabed at a depth of 108 meters (354 feet)."