It's odd that this is a request for a preliminary injunction considering that the case is almost four years old. Both the 2022 and the new filing are heavily censored[1][2], so I can't know for sure, but I didn't notice any revelation in the latest filing. Amazon requires that anyone selling through their platform not offer lower prices elsewhere online. If a seller does so, they'll be relegated to the "New & pre-owned" offers section below the "Add to cart" & "Buy it now" buttons. This has been the case since at least 2019. (This also means that if you're shopping on Amazon and want a better deal, you should check the other offers section for a cheaper price.)
Lots of retailers (both physical & online) have similar requirements, and many manufacturers have similar requirements for minimum advertised prices (such as Apple). I think the California AG's plan is to argue that the pricing rules combined with Amazon's large market share merit a judgement against them, but it's going to be an uphill battle to single out one company for practices that are common to the industry.
> Lots of retailers (both physical & online) have similar requirements
My understanding (IANAL) is that that is illegal, and those retailers should be prosecuted as well. That is essentially price fixing, because the retailer is enforcing their competitors have the same price, using the supplier as an intermediary.
> many manufacturers have similar requirements
That is a different situation, and is AFAICT legal in the US (but not in many other countries, and IMHO probably shouldn't be legal), at least in some situations, but there are limits.
fmajid 3 hours ago [-]
At this point, Antitrust law is no longer the right statute for prosecution.
Radical leftist lunatic antifa terrorists that want to see this country DESTROYED!!
cucumber3732842 2 hours ago [-]
That would be like showing up for the battle of Kursk with an M18 battalion. Might go well at first, you might score some big flashy wins, but....ugh... things are gonna get worse as the party goes on and it's generally an ill advised strategy.
Rico as written and enforced walks right up to the limit of constitutionality in a dozen ways. It's built for speed. It's never really been thrown into a knock down drag out legal action between titans on equal footing (i.e. a bigco legal team, potentially helped by other bigcos). It might survive nominally but it probably won't come out the other end in serviceable condition. You might win a few but eventually an appeal will find its target and end your day.
I say go for it. Heads I win. Tails you get RICO reform.
add-sub-mul-div 3 hours ago [-]
Anything trying to protect consumer rights at the federal level risks getting shut down during a future Republican administration.
decremental 3 hours ago [-]
[dead]
lelandfe 3 hours ago [-]
If you've ever seen those "Click To Reveal Price" or "Price Only Revealed At Checkout" products online, this here is one reason why. They help businesses keep discounted prices hidden from Amazon's crawlers.
ggreer 2 hours ago [-]
This can also be true if the manufacturer of the product requires that retailers not offer a price below a certain amount. This is called the minimum advertised price (MAP) and is common for big brands like Apple. Another way to get around the minimum advertised price is to bundle the product with some other product or service, such as is done with cell phone contracts.
xnx 2 hours ago [-]
Blame the manufacturer for this, not the reseller.
fg137 2 hours ago [-]
Is it effective, like, at all?
jmyeet 3 minutes ago [-]
The entire use case of dynamic pricing is to raise prices.
Airlines were really the first to do this but there it kinda makes sense. You have a plane. It's going anyway. You want to fill it.
At the other extreme is RealPage, which is explicitly designed to raise rents and it's used by enough people that you can view it as the last frontier of anti-trust, anticompetitive behavior and price-fixing. It's also state-sanctioned violence because your price-fixing scheme has the threat of you being homeless attached to it.
That's another aspect to this: collusion doesn't happen in dark smoke-filled rooms anymore. It can be as simple as all "competitors" simply using the same software, which tells them all to do the same thing.
Another commenter had it right: this is beyond antitrust or competition law. It's a RICO issue.
There's no real structural reason for inflation since the pandemic. The pandemic simply broke the seal on raising prices and now everybody is in on it.
trollbridge 3 hours ago [-]
Amazon would be smart to settle with no admission of wrongdoing and an agreement to seal documents lest every other state end up following suit.
ikidd 2 hours ago [-]
The documents can be subpoenaed for a new proceeding from the source.
reenorap 33 minutes ago [-]
How is this not a complete violation of anti-trust laws? If the federal government won't pursue it (questionable in this environment), surely there's more than enough to go after it state-by-state.
And can't we do a class-action lawsuit against Amazon at this point?
SilverElfin 2 hours ago [-]
We need all new antitrust laws. The size of these companies is itself a problem. They have so much power that there is no possibility for fair competition. Maybe we can start by taxing companies that are worth more than 1 trillion at an extremely high rate.
foobarian 59 minutes ago [-]
I wonder who would prosecute them. What about an AG who, when confronted about doing a bad job, deflects by pointing out that Nasdaq is "smashing records?"
worik 4 hours ago [-]
Unsurprising
Did Amazon think they were too big to convict?
I wonder if they will meet the fate of Standard Oil, back in the day.
fmajid 3 hours ago [-]
No, Antitrust law was effectively neutered by the Chicago School and their agent Robert Bork.
(BTW that source is right-wing and can hardly be said to be biased against Bork).
vondur 2 hours ago [-]
That's fascinating. Bork was denied being on the supreme court but his ideas shaped current antitrust laws. It feels a bit like the old Standard Oil argument: It's ok to have a huge market share so long as pricing for goods gets cheaper even if it hurts competition overall. *edited* for grammar.
jshzglr 2 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
Rendered at 02:06:34 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
Lots of retailers (both physical & online) have similar requirements, and many manufacturers have similar requirements for minimum advertised prices (such as Apple). I think the California AG's plan is to argue that the pricing rules combined with Amazon's large market share merit a judgement against them, but it's going to be an uphill battle to single out one company for practices that are common to the industry.
1. https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/attachments/press-docs/2022-...
2. https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/attachments/press-docs/REDAC...
My understanding (IANAL) is that that is illegal, and those retailers should be prosecuted as well. That is essentially price fixing, because the retailer is enforcing their competitors have the same price, using the supplier as an intermediary.
> many manufacturers have similar requirements
That is a different situation, and is AFAICT legal in the US (but not in many other countries, and IMHO probably shouldn't be legal), at least in some situations, but there are limits.
RICO is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corru...
Radical leftist lunatic antifa terrorists that want to see this country DESTROYED!!
Rico as written and enforced walks right up to the limit of constitutionality in a dozen ways. It's built for speed. It's never really been thrown into a knock down drag out legal action between titans on equal footing (i.e. a bigco legal team, potentially helped by other bigcos). It might survive nominally but it probably won't come out the other end in serviceable condition. You might win a few but eventually an appeal will find its target and end your day.
I say go for it. Heads I win. Tails you get RICO reform.
Airlines were really the first to do this but there it kinda makes sense. You have a plane. It's going anyway. You want to fill it.
At the other extreme is RealPage, which is explicitly designed to raise rents and it's used by enough people that you can view it as the last frontier of anti-trust, anticompetitive behavior and price-fixing. It's also state-sanctioned violence because your price-fixing scheme has the threat of you being homeless attached to it.
That's another aspect to this: collusion doesn't happen in dark smoke-filled rooms anymore. It can be as simple as all "competitors" simply using the same software, which tells them all to do the same thing.
Another commenter had it right: this is beyond antitrust or competition law. It's a RICO issue.
There's no real structural reason for inflation since the pandemic. The pandemic simply broke the seal on raising prices and now everybody is in on it.
And can't we do a class-action lawsuit against Amazon at this point?
Did Amazon think they were too big to convict?
I wonder if they will meet the fate of Standard Oil, back in the day.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/robert-borks-america...
(BTW that source is right-wing and can hardly be said to be biased against Bork).