There must have been so much unseen behavior when there were millions more whales in the ocean. Here's hoping that we can see more
sidewndr46 8 hours ago [-]
Given the current trajectory of whale populations, 'we' probably won't be seeing that. Maybe in many generations of humans.
cortesoft 7 hours ago [-]
Well, the population growth probably isn't linear, so maybe?
mulnz 7 hours ago [-]
Warming will kill off most of the systems these animals depend on within 30 years.
ilt 7 hours ago [-]
And will give way to many which thrive or evolve to thrive in hotter climates?
gilrain 51 seconds ago [-]
Not at the pace of change we’ve chosen to accept, no.
netcan 4 hours ago [-]
In human time scales, the species which thrive will tend to be the adaptive generalists. Evolution takes time.
ygjb 6 hours ago [-]
It's gonna take a minute (on a geological timescale) for the ecosystems to be able to reliably sustain megafauna again.
gameman144 6 hours ago [-]
Given that we support megafauna today, could you explain why? Legitimately asking, since I don't see a reason they couldn't adapt just as well.
gdupont 6 hours ago [-]
Because evolution is slow and the climate change is going fast.
timschmidt 5 hours ago [-]
Evolution of small things like algae and the krill which feed on it and feed the whale is quite fast. Single celled organisms reproduce on the scale of 20 minutes and hold immense amounts of genetic diversity in their populations to facilitate the success of a better adapted line almost immediately. Additionally, they are adept at horizontal gene transfer from other well-adapted organisms.
kulahan 5 hours ago [-]
This would be great news if the whale literally only required krill to survive, but complex megafauna have complex needs, so the ability of krill and other small creatures to evolve is largely irrelevant in a discussion regarding the ability of megafauna to survive. This is especially true if you read TFA and see that the whales already adapt to eat different things as necessary.
timschmidt 4 hours ago [-]
Humpbacks have a highly specialized feeding mechanism. They only prey on krill and small fish.
The food chain really is sun -> algae -> krill (and sometimes small fish) -> humpback whale
jounker 10 minutes ago [-]
In recent years we’ve learned that humpbacks are generalist feeders with a wide variety of feeding strategies adapted to different kinds of prey.
We would need 1000x faster, so that doesn’t really change anything.
TeMPOraL 3 hours ago [-]
It could easily become this fast or even faster, if we would just stop worrying so much about "playing god" and focus instead on getting good at this job. We don't have much time for this either, as AI is on the trajectory to take over that mantle in the next decade or three, whether we like it or not.
But seriously, we may not have much choice. Natural evolution stopped being able to adapt to environmental changes after it created us; genetic engineering is essentially the only way to make biology adaptable enough again.
vasco 2 hours ago [-]
The next question is which traits to do you choose and the next question is which traits are better, because choices will imply ordering, and then you open a big can of worms that last time killed millions of people. So maybe there's other ways to avoid doom that didn't create doom last time we went down the path.
kakacik 2 hours ago [-]
Unpopular opinion for obvious reasons, but probably the only realistic one apart from just witnessing one extinction after another. Pollution and climate change aint going anywhere until we elevate whole world to the level of say western Europe.
But since we humans are pretty arrogant with our wisdom and lack long term patience, I can see many ways where well-intended meddling can end up in catastrophe overall.
thrance 6 hours ago [-]
Sure, in a few million years.
wahnfrieden 6 hours ago [-]
It’s game over for a very long time
napierzaza 6 hours ago [-]
[dead]
vasco 2 hours ago [-]
Why put a number on it? Every number so far has been wrong. Can we agree on the negative impacts of humans on an environment conducive to humanity without putting obviously wrong timings on predictions? I bet your intention is to provoke urgency but to most people it just causes an eye roll because it's not true, whereas the underlying ideas are true.
cultofmetatron 2 hours ago [-]
cod fishing boats used to have to be wary of the catch being so big that it would tip the boat.
We have no real frame of reference for what we've already lost.
vasco 1 hours ago [-]
Of course we do, you just gave an example. In fact if we truly didn't, then there would be no problem.
swframe2 10 hours ago [-]
I hope we create whalegemma (similar to dolphingemma) so we can explain to them how to co-exist better with humans (e.g. avoid this area during their whale hunting season, travel to this area if you get sick or tangled in rope).
zyxin 8 hours ago [-]
There is a group that is attempting to communicate with whales by training a transformer based model on whale sounds.
No it isn't and that clickbait article doesn't say it is.
dmos62 51 minutes ago [-]
What makes it a clickbait article?
>There is a federal law that prohibits people from communicating with dolphins.
>It’s called the Marine Mammal Protection Act. Signed in 1972 by President Richard Nixon, the federal law was created to protect marine mammals from being hunted, harassed, captured or killed.
>In a sense, talking to or communicating with dolphins could qualify as harassment under the Marine Mammal Protection Act.
>There are two levels of harassment, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Harassment at one level is considered “any act of pursuit, torment, or annoyance that has the potential to injure a marine mammal or marine mammal stock in the wild.”
>On another level, harassment is defined by the NOAA as “acts having the potential to disturb (but not injure) a marine mammal or marine mammal stock in the wild by disrupting behavioral patterns, including, but not limited to, migration, breathing, nursing, breeding, feeding, or sheltering.”
tclancy 9 hours ago [-]
It’s going to be prog rock, isn’t it?
parpfish 9 hours ago [-]
no, i think they're just going to start a podcast.
tclancy 9 hours ago [-]
Yes officer, this one right here.
6 hours ago [-]
naruhodo 2 hours ago [-]
Not necessarily. Look at the Gorillaz.
_joel 3 hours ago [-]
The water goes all the way up to 11
The_Blade 5 hours ago [-]
Migaloo is joining Humphrey the Whale's team in SF forming a super team
redact207 2 hours ago [-]
their music's making waves
ourmandave 43 minutes ago [-]
Alright, who pissed off Aquaman this time?
astrocat 10 hours ago [-]
holy units batman
> Bursting from their enormous lungs at over 300mph (483km/h), a humpback whale's blow can rise up to 7m (23ft) into the air.
Pick a lane BBC.
But this is great news. Also the fact that whales "transport huge amounts of nutrients across the globe" (linking to [1]) is fascinating. The role of whales in sucking up critters in one place and pooping them out elsewhere being a fundamental dynamic that drives global ocean ecosystems... just chefs kiss
It's not just the BBC, it's the UK as a whole. Miles per hour or deeply entrenched for speeds but for measurements we use meters. The same for weight, we weigh people in stone but we weigh everything else with grams.
frereubu 2 hours ago [-]
I remember reading about whales returning to an area they hadn't been in for decades and people were worried about them eating all the local fish, but in fact their faeces enriched the local ecosystem from the ground up, leading to more fish. It's a bit like the counter-arguments to the lump of labour fallacy.
tom_ 8 hours ago [-]
I think the BBC policy is to provide every measurement in both types of unit.
gamerslexus 8 hours ago [-]
Ordering is inconsistent.
CarVac 8 hours ago [-]
They use MPH in the UK.
aaronbrethorst 7 hours ago [-]
Their hours are pegged to the hogshead, and are about 3 seconds shorter than American hours.
lostlogin 6 hours ago [-]
The US use of units is worse than the UK.
Said from a proudly metric country, New Zealand, where everyone knows their weight in kilograms and height in feet and inches.
NooneAtAll3 2 hours ago [-]
at least it's not stones
The_Blade 5 hours ago [-]
The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My Tesla gets 40 rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it!
redsocksfan45 3 hours ago [-]
[dead]
cyberax 6 hours ago [-]
Apparently they also measurably affect the vertical water mixing. Fish need dissolved oxygen to breathe, so they don't normally venture past the thermocline. And their fins are also vertical, so they don't cause a lot of vertical water movement.
But whales routinely dive deep, and their tail fin is _horizontal_ and it creates powerful updrafts.
Another organism that affects mixing is apparently jellyfish.
8 hours ago [-]
8 hours ago [-]
dotspec 8 hours ago [-]
It's the Entmoot of the sea.
shevy-java 4 hours ago [-]
They may gather up for a protest. See the whale north of Germany who seems unable to swim away.
kunley 5 hours ago [-]
They are going to save us from that XXIII century probe, right
The food chain really is sun -> algae -> krill (and sometimes small fish) -> humpback whale
Like what? Emotional support dolphin?
But seriously, we may not have much choice. Natural evolution stopped being able to adapt to environmental changes after it created us; genetic engineering is essentially the only way to make biology adaptable enough again.
But since we humans are pretty arrogant with our wisdom and lack long term patience, I can see many ways where well-intended meddling can end up in catastrophe overall.
We have no real frame of reference for what we've already lost.
https://www.projectceti.org/
The same goes for most of our ecological problems, really.
>There is a federal law that prohibits people from communicating with dolphins.
>It’s called the Marine Mammal Protection Act. Signed in 1972 by President Richard Nixon, the federal law was created to protect marine mammals from being hunted, harassed, captured or killed.
>In a sense, talking to or communicating with dolphins could qualify as harassment under the Marine Mammal Protection Act.
>There are two levels of harassment, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Harassment at one level is considered “any act of pursuit, torment, or annoyance that has the potential to injure a marine mammal or marine mammal stock in the wild.”
>On another level, harassment is defined by the NOAA as “acts having the potential to disturb (but not injure) a marine mammal or marine mammal stock in the wild by disrupting behavioral patterns, including, but not limited to, migration, breathing, nursing, breeding, feeding, or sheltering.”
> Bursting from their enormous lungs at over 300mph (483km/h), a humpback whale's blow can rise up to 7m (23ft) into the air.
Pick a lane BBC.
But this is great news. Also the fact that whales "transport huge amounts of nutrients across the globe" (linking to [1]) is fascinating. The role of whales in sucking up critters in one place and pooping them out elsewhere being a fundamental dynamic that drives global ocean ecosystems... just chefs kiss
[1] https://www.nature.com/research-intelligence/nri-topic-summa...)
Said from a proudly metric country, New Zealand, where everyone knows their weight in kilograms and height in feet and inches.
But whales routinely dive deep, and their tail fin is _horizontal_ and it creates powerful updrafts.
Another organism that affects mixing is apparently jellyfish.