While I'm not _happy_ about the messaging changes, those alone are not enough to do more than start paying closer attention. I highly, highly doubt that vault export would be the first meaningful feature change, and so I think there will be stronger signals of actual issues before then.
As I understand it, so far the only actual change is an announced increase in prices. Obviously, from the consumer perspective, cheaper is better, but this is a product where I think that a subscription plan makes sense (and the free tier, for now, still exists), and so I'm not going to get mad about price changes. Competitors exist and one doesn't think the new price is worth it, then switch to one of them (using the very-much-still-available vault export).
I don't think the warning is crazy or anything, but in my personal opinion it's a little stronger/earlier than is warranted and the current appropriate response is careful watching.
ktm5j 23 minutes ago [-]
I hear you, but I feel like it's a better safe than sorry situation. Exporting your passwords takes two seconds. I think you can export to an encrypted file, but I just did a plain-text json file and gpg'd it. Can't hurt to play it safe.
tfarias 22 minutes ago [-]
I've been recommending Bitwarden for a few years now and have also been paying a yearly sub since 2022, as I always thought 10$ was a really good value.
But with all this stuff coming out, I'm holding off on recommending it anymore; at least until everything calms down and the new value proposition is fully laid out.
Like other folks have said, I don't think it's yet time to migrate. That being said, it doesn't hurt to do an encrypted export for backup purposes, start looking at alternatives, and reach out to people I know use Bitwarden to do the same.
Keeping an eye out on how this develops.
solarkraft 7 minutes ago [-]
Agreed. I will continue using it as it currently fulfills my needs. But I’m not going to shout it at everybody I catch not using a password manager anymore. I’m just not willing to take responsibility for the changes they may make in the near future.
As an aside, since it seems like they’re trying to make money: The aforementioned enthusiasm has gotten it adopted at a workplace of mine. The experience hasn’t been good, so no recommendation here either.
Their moat was being a trusted name in FOSS and it’s a bit sad to see them going in the direction of abandoning it.
But somebody else will probably step up and build on the ruins, like vaultwarden already has. That’s the beauty of choosing FOSS in the first place.
It's a shell script that stores passwords in a git repository, containing one file per entry. The files are encrypted using a GPG key. Because it's just a git repository, you can synchronise it between devices using whatever infrastructure you want. I use a FOSS client for it on iOS, and there was one for Android before I got an iPhone.
n0ot 5 minutes ago [-]
I tried using pass once. I like that it follows the Unix philosophy, and I want to like it, but the fact that all of your account names are visible in the clear is a deal breaker for me.
ab71e5 13 minutes ago [-]
I'm interested in this, what do you use to host the git repo? Just a private repo on something like github or your own server? How do you backup your private key?
Depraved4482 25 minutes ago [-]
+1 for pass! I use this on my VPS to store secrets. I love that it syncs with GIT. Good stuff
Someone1234 1 hours ago [-]
I think the caution around Bitwarden is justified; and I think it is good that the message is getting out there. I will say "while you still can" is hyperbole, and will do more to distract from the larger (correct) point about Private Equity.
Terr_ 8 minutes ago [-]
So I have an admission here: I keep seeing HN stuff about these networked password managers and I don't quite understand the appeal.
Is it because everybody else is swapping between several different computers, and you need the synchronization?
I just have everything in KeepassXC, and the ciphertext is subject to the same kind of backup regime I use for other files, a copy kept on a USB stick in my pocket.
Humorist2290 20 minutes ago [-]
I'm taking a "wait and see" approach with Bitwarden. I've been a paying customer for a while, happy with it, and hoping the leadership changes won't be too user hostile. Still, a major reason I chose Bitwarden to begin with is they have a decent "Export" button, and all of this news reminded me that my offline backup of the vault was a few months old. Regardless of their product roadmap, they could have an incident tomorrow that keeps users away from their passwords -- offline backups are a good idea.
And Vaultwarden is nice. I've used it at work, hosted it myself, and as a user of the password manager I can say it's basically indistinguishable. But I don't really pay Bitwarden for a password manager -- I pay them for a secure sync of a password manager I can share with family members who can't figure out a VPN.
stormed 12 minutes ago [-]
I only use Vaultwarden, which to my understanding is an open source reimplementation of Bitwarden's API. I personally haven't had any issues with it, not sure if it'll eventually stop being compatible with Bitwarden's official applications however.
sys32768 4 minutes ago [-]
We were just about to go to BitWarden from KeePass.
TN1ck 5 minutes ago [-]
I switched to Apple Passwords this week. Really good passkey support, 2FA support, best iOS integration. You can even share passwords with others. Sadly no first party cli support. If you only use Apple devices, it’s really solid.
cjwoodall 55 minutes ago [-]
I wish companies that offer such a core technology and what not were at times entered into a public trust, similar to how some public lands are managed, that would protect them from private equity takeovers; I know it defeats the purpose of the companies in the first place (making money), and it probably would backfire in myriad worse ways than the problems it might solve... But I do think there are many options for how products, services and what not can be structured that give the people who maintain them what they need to thrive; without mining the users for money.
Overly idealistic thinking, maybe... but still thinking.
throwaway85825 41 minutes ago [-]
Public management exists for natural monopolies where no market competition is feasible. The role of the public entities is to protect competition. In this case that would be mandating import/export interoperability.
HeartStrings 9 minutes ago [-]
KeepassXC
poisonborz 57 minutes ago [-]
Clients are OSS, I wonder why nobody did a Vaultwarden-style fork of them yet that would watch over upstream changes.
jerf 22 minutes ago [-]
Until Bitwarden screws up it's going to be difficult for any fork to get much attention. If they do, that will the moment to launch a fork.
It's Bitwarden's game to lose. Forking is easy enough that there's no great need to pre-emptively fork.
subhobroto 52 minutes ago [-]
Vaultwarden is a very lean implementation of Bitwarden but if you want to look into an alternative to the Bitwarden ecosystem, I recommend - AliasVault https://github.com/aliasvault/aliasvault - check it out!
AdmiralAsshat 9 minutes ago [-]
The original creator of Bitwarden still works there as a CTO. I am curious whether he has any failsafes/poison pills in his contract when he took VC money that allows him to fork the product and start over in the event that they decide they want to lock everything down.
Or did he sign all of those rights away when he took the $100M "fuck you" VC funding in 2022.
PaulHoule 60 minutes ago [-]
Sometimes I think when a startup announces that they are being acquired their competitors have a meeting that morning and announce that they're going to start dialing for dollars. Since acquisitions almost always hurt customers I wonder if we can start creating "poison pills" that deter them.
bilal4hmed 33 minutes ago [-]
This is getting so tiring. What are the other options out there now?
skarz 30 minutes ago [-]
ProtonPass
undeveloper 19 minutes ago [-]
vaultwarden (self hosted)
eleventen 1 hours ago [-]
I think this is a little hyperbolic. The product may drop features, increase prices, and squeeze its free tier users. Everything enshittifies. But the idea that password export might disappear or be degraded? Nah. You'll be able to jump ship any time you want.
vallassy 1 hours ago [-]
>You'll be able to jump ship any time you want.
Famous last words...
AdmiralAsshat 32 minutes ago [-]
I mean, LastPass was a train wreck after their breach, but they didn't go as far as trying to stop me from exporting my vault when I switched to BW.
The idea of BW doing a rug pull and suddenly removing the ability to export your vault I think would trigger a class-action lawsuit.
e40 32 minutes ago [-]
I don't know why this is framed as "jumping ship" ... of course you can stop using it any time (and use your periodic export to go elsewhere).
The real issue is potential data loss. Remember LastPass? Bought by someone and downhill it went, with multiple security incidents.
tremarley 1 hours ago [-]
Never underestimate the lengths companies will go to, to enshittify their product to squeeze customers for money.
eleventen 1 hours ago [-]
Name one major password manager that blocks or paywalls export.
kpozin 1 hours ago [-]
- Authy
- Google Authenticator
eleventen 51 minutes ago [-]
Not password managers of course, but thanks for reminding me that I should figure out how to ditch Authy.
Google Authenticator has an export-as-QR-code function that several other authenticator apps can parse. Is it the best/most convenient implementation? Obviously not, but you can absolutely export the codes.
Bitwarden/Vaultwarden had a good run but if someone's going to self-host Vaultwarden, I would encourage people to look into AliasVault instead. It's a complete opensource ecosystem.
pattilupone 55 minutes ago [-]
WOW. Quietly editing the 4-year-old blog post is super slimy, holy crap. Also seems like since this story was published, they edited the 4-year-old blog post again. The story points out
>But the explanatory paragraph at the bottom of the same post still says the old ones: Inclusion and Transparency. Crandell’s name is still on it. The post now contradicts itself, and nobody wrote a new one.
Looking at the post right now, they've corrected it to Innovation and Trust.
steviedotboston 20 minutes ago [-]
This is a whole lot of FUD.
jrm4 40 minutes ago [-]
Third-party password management as an isolated paid service (i.e. you don't get password management unless you pay specifically for the password management) is just a terribly bad idea all around.
Waiting for people to get this.
e40 34 minutes ago [-]
A bad idea for you. My non-technical family members can barely use 1Password and it is the easiest of the lot. The idea you promote is just not realistic.
baal80spam 30 minutes ago [-]
Not really. That something is convenient doesn't mean that it's a good idea. It's always a matter of convenience vs security.
sandeepkd 7 minutes ago [-]
Its a catch 22, with password requirements getting crazy its hard to remember them. At the same time storing the passwords with a password manager means you are entrusting them for your identity. For the first party sites the passwords are hashed, however for these password manager sites they are at the most encrypted with the encryption keys that the third party already has. This essentially means a rouge password manager or rouge individual in password manager service can run away with your plaintext passwords on scale
starkparker 7 minutes ago [-]
This frames the only options as mediocre and better, when the reality is likely the third, most common, and worst option: nothing.
avgDev 1 hours ago [-]
A tale as old as time, enshitification.
Rendered at 16:06:22 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
As I understand it, so far the only actual change is an announced increase in prices. Obviously, from the consumer perspective, cheaper is better, but this is a product where I think that a subscription plan makes sense (and the free tier, for now, still exists), and so I'm not going to get mad about price changes. Competitors exist and one doesn't think the new price is worth it, then switch to one of them (using the very-much-still-available vault export).
I don't think the warning is crazy or anything, but in my personal opinion it's a little stronger/earlier than is warranted and the current appropriate response is careful watching.
But with all this stuff coming out, I'm holding off on recommending it anymore; at least until everything calms down and the new value proposition is fully laid out.
Like other folks have said, I don't think it's yet time to migrate. That being said, it doesn't hurt to do an encrypted export for backup purposes, start looking at alternatives, and reach out to people I know use Bitwarden to do the same.
Keeping an eye out on how this develops.
As an aside, since it seems like they’re trying to make money: The aforementioned enthusiasm has gotten it adopted at a workplace of mine. The experience hasn’t been good, so no recommendation here either.
Their moat was being a trusted name in FOSS and it’s a bit sad to see them going in the direction of abandoning it.
But somebody else will probably step up and build on the ruins, like vaultwarden already has. That’s the beauty of choosing FOSS in the first place.
It's a shell script that stores passwords in a git repository, containing one file per entry. The files are encrypted using a GPG key. Because it's just a git repository, you can synchronise it between devices using whatever infrastructure you want. I use a FOSS client for it on iOS, and there was one for Android before I got an iPhone.
Is it because everybody else is swapping between several different computers, and you need the synchronization?
I just have everything in KeepassXC, and the ciphertext is subject to the same kind of backup regime I use for other files, a copy kept on a USB stick in my pocket.
And Vaultwarden is nice. I've used it at work, hosted it myself, and as a user of the password manager I can say it's basically indistinguishable. But I don't really pay Bitwarden for a password manager -- I pay them for a secure sync of a password manager I can share with family members who can't figure out a VPN.
Overly idealistic thinking, maybe... but still thinking.
It's Bitwarden's game to lose. Forking is easy enough that there's no great need to pre-emptively fork.
Or did he sign all of those rights away when he took the $100M "fuck you" VC funding in 2022.
Famous last words...
The idea of BW doing a rug pull and suddenly removing the ability to export your vault I think would trigger a class-action lawsuit.
The real issue is potential data loss. Remember LastPass? Bought by someone and downhill it went, with multiple security incidents.
- Google Authenticator
https://github.com/BrenoFariasdaSilva/Authy-iOS-MiTM is going to be my project for the afternoon.
is a good alter. Works perfect for me.
The quiet renovation at Bitwarden
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48163389
Bitwarden/Vaultwarden had a good run but if someone's going to self-host Vaultwarden, I would encourage people to look into AliasVault instead. It's a complete opensource ecosystem.
>But the explanatory paragraph at the bottom of the same post still says the old ones: Inclusion and Transparency. Crandell’s name is still on it. The post now contradicts itself, and nobody wrote a new one.
Looking at the post right now, they've corrected it to Innovation and Trust.
Waiting for people to get this.