Kind of a misleading title, but an interesting article. It’s about the perception that Europeans have of the likelihood that the US could be relied upon in the event that someone attacks their EU country.
Some of these opinion polls are not particularly useful though, as for example Poland is frequently signing defense deals with the US. I’m not sure it’s all that relevant how much a western EU country feels about the prospect of being attacked, as I don’t see how Portugal or Spain or France are at much geopolitical risk compared to the eastern flank.
Macha 19 minutes ago [-]
I think its interesting that they Estonia has both the biggest swing against increasing defence spending (+23 to +1, from middle of the pack to second last), and the highest rate of blaming their own government for fuel prices. I wouldn’t have expected either result.
musikele 44 minutes ago [-]
speaking about defending ourselves: there's a huge gap between "willing to defend" and "actually be able to defend" ourselves
mrtksn 5 minutes ago [-]
Those are not different things, "willing to defend" is just the prerequisite of "actually be able to defend". Look at Ukraine, how weak they were and how good they defended themselves. Look at Iran, how resilient they are despite decades of sanctions and their shitty regime.
When things start moving people can move mountains, suddenly the unemployment goes to %0 like it happened with Russia.
CarlitosHighway 28 minutes ago [-]
But we're now spending and working on this gap like crazy.
4gotunameagain 22 minutes ago [-]
And we will end up using those weapons against eachother, again.
As if we haven't seen that film before.
Or even worse, keep selling them to Israel as Germany is doing, because one genocide was not enough and two wrongs make a right.
x3ro 10 minutes ago [-]
I don't understand why this is being downvoted. It's not unreasonable to assume that increased militarization, coupled with increased nationalistic sentiment, could lead to inner-european conflicts escalating into wars. Sure, right now Russia is the enemy, but who knows what'll happen in ten years. And the military machinery is not just going to be scaled down immediately.
If he's being downvoted for his "selling weapons to Israel" comment, I just want to highlight that even a majority of Germans is against it, with 80% not wanting to send weapons [1]. Of course there are different polls, and others find that "only" 30% say "stop them", plus another 43% saying "limit them [2]. Either way, only a small minority is pro "send all the weapons".
I guess nobody disagrees that Europe needs to have a better footing with regards to both production and employment. But is there a real political will? It would require a nuclear arsenal and I don't really see many countries in the EU wanting to go that way. The only one who seem to want to go that route are Poland, and they know WHY they want nukes - see the history they have with Russia.
mschild 20 minutes ago [-]
France and UK have a nuclear arsenal. France specifically has said they are willing to extend their policy to cover other EU countries.
I dunno, for decades the policy by most of the West has been (a) keep Germany from re-arming in case they start WW3 and (b) discourage nuclear proliferation by anyone, and now because the Americans have thrown security out the window in exchange for freedom to bully, we have to reverse course on both of those?
brightball 23 minutes ago [-]
Not for this guy from Germany traveling across the US for the World Cup
In the UK this feels like the least popular world cup in years. Even after Russia and Qatar, it feels like more of a FIFA corruption circus.
toxicunderGroov 12 minutes ago [-]
Let's hope the German's grow their balls back so we can get to work.
Fuck Orange Pedo and those 77mil pedo sympathizers.
RGamma 5 minutes ago [-]
[delayed]
seydor 28 minutes ago [-]
The interesting french delusion that donald is an outlier
thefz 28 minutes ago [-]
With access to Internet in my late teens came the exposure to an intellectual, cultured leftist America I did not know existed.
Now 20 years later, it really does not exist anymore.
The US is a business,not a country, and it hates its own citizens.
pjc50 16 minutes ago [-]
"X is a land of contrasts" is a cliche, but: America is a land of contrasts. It manages to have elements both of shining city on the hill and squalid banana republic (resource extraction economy with poor rule of law) adjacent to each other.
But yes, the main natural predator of Americans is other Americans.
shevy-java 31 minutes ago [-]
> Europeans embrace self-reliance and are clear-eyed about Donald Trump—but do not expect a permanent break from the US.
That's a wrong analysis IMO. I think NATO as it was is completely dead. Europeans need a nuclear arsenal too (french and UK nukes are for those two countries only; that does not protect several hundred millions people). Russia is threatening escalation every day, including using nukes. Europeans need their own nukes here - relying on a corrupt orange man acting like a russian asset, is a losing strategy. Even having another guy act and roleplay as president, won't really change this fundamental problem.
tjpnz 10 minutes ago [-]
Europe also needs to be in a position where it can quickly deploy the anti-coercion instrument[0] should a foreign power interfere in elections or threaten territorial integrity. The last time it was on the table didn't give me confidence they could.
For what is worth, France offered to extend its nuclear umbrella to protect other European countries, offer accepted by 9 countries so far. Okay it's not permanent, doesn't necessary mean deployments in those countries, but still things are moving and the direction is obvious.
CarlitosHighway 24 minutes ago [-]
Absolutely agree. Mutual destruction needs to be assured both with Russia AND the US, because who knows who they'll elect president next - Joe Rogan? Alex Jones? xAI?
And in addition we need a "Star Wars" iron dome that works against nuclear as well. The EU needs to become the first super-power who has a shot at a winnable nuclear war.
After all we gave to the world EVERYTHING it has, including the "United States", including the Japanese and Chinese economic miracle, including non-Barbaric culture to Russia.
So we should be able to take it away from all of them without consequences.
pjc50 14 minutes ago [-]
We need less unhinged sephiroth-posting and more recognition that neither Japan nor China could be kept poor and backwards forever, since we forcibly opened their economies at gunpoint centuries ago.
stefantalpalaru 30 minutes ago [-]
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aaron695 34 minutes ago [-]
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lyu07282 46 minutes ago [-]
Atlanticist polls are probably more interesting (if there even is such a thing) when considering which questions they didn't even ask, rather than the questions they asked confirming all the establishment positions anyway.
shevy-java 28 minutes ago [-]
Would this make a difference though? The USA abandoned Europeans already before Trump. You only have to look at the polls. Thus, it makes sense to completely cut the ties, build up a nuclear arsenal and offset the mafia in Moscow. It makes no sense for Europeans to want to depend on the USA here; I have no idea who came up with that idea. Most likely the USA as it helped them project power. See how many bombing campaigns started from US bases in Germany, most famously from Ramstein.
CarlitosHighway 22 minutes ago [-]
Of course. If the US builds military bases in your country, it profits THEM, not you.
lyu07282 8 minutes ago [-]
Well the establishment position in the EU is that Trump is an outlier and that relations will normalize once he is removed from power, then business as usual can continue. Beyond that broad agreement with US - EU alignment on foreign policy (NATO, Ukraine, Israel, Iran, China) must continue even under Trump. Trump is even seen as an opportunity to convince Europeans to increase its own "NATO compatible" military spending.
What I meant was it would be more interesting to see any opinions that conflict with that above establishment consensus. For example on negotiated settlement of the Ukraine war vs. continuing the forever war. Like where do Europeans disagree with the strategic interests of the US, do they really 100% align as this poll makes it appear? How is that possible?
Rendered at 10:36:12 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
Some of these opinion polls are not particularly useful though, as for example Poland is frequently signing defense deals with the US. I’m not sure it’s all that relevant how much a western EU country feels about the prospect of being attacked, as I don’t see how Portugal or Spain or France are at much geopolitical risk compared to the eastern flank.
When things start moving people can move mountains, suddenly the unemployment goes to %0 like it happened with Russia.
As if we haven't seen that film before.
Or even worse, keep selling them to Israel as Germany is doing, because one genocide was not enough and two wrongs make a right.
If he's being downvoted for his "selling weapons to Israel" comment, I just want to highlight that even a majority of Germans is against it, with 80% not wanting to send weapons [1]. Of course there are different polls, and others find that "only" 30% say "stop them", plus another 43% saying "limit them [2]. Either way, only a small minority is pro "send all the weapons".
[1]: https://www.plan.de/presse/pressemitteilungen/detail/80-proz... [2]: https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/1615302/umfra...
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj4zlnezrl7o
I dunno, for decades the policy by most of the West has been (a) keep Germany from re-arming in case they start WW3 and (b) discourage nuclear proliferation by anyone, and now because the Americans have thrown security out the window in exchange for freedom to bully, we have to reverse course on both of those?
https://x.com/freddyla7?s=21
But yes, the main natural predator of Americans is other Americans.
That's a wrong analysis IMO. I think NATO as it was is completely dead. Europeans need a nuclear arsenal too (french and UK nukes are for those two countries only; that does not protect several hundred millions people). Russia is threatening escalation every day, including using nukes. Europeans need their own nukes here - relying on a corrupt orange man acting like a russian asset, is a losing strategy. Even having another guy act and roleplay as president, won't really change this fundamental problem.
0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Coercion_Instrument
What I meant was it would be more interesting to see any opinions that conflict with that above establishment consensus. For example on negotiated settlement of the Ukraine war vs. continuing the forever war. Like where do Europeans disagree with the strategic interests of the US, do they really 100% align as this poll makes it appear? How is that possible?