Very impressed at net cost. I used to run a small ecom business targeting total prices in the range of $3-10. At $3, payment processing is nearly 11-12% of costs, which is absurd, more if you amortize the occasional chargeback/fraud. Lightning can do it for <<0.1% net cost even at the low end, which is incredible. There are plenty of these kinds of vendors on eBay, Aliexpress etc that would be willing to adopt with a bit of help.
For whoever posted, your cost calculator should be first thing on the page, and you "How we calculated this number" link is broken
jcfrei 40 minutes ago [-]
lightning is a pain to set up, you have to open a channel and keep funding it - so if we are talking about small amounts these costs should definitely be added to your calculation. or you use lightning via an exchange - but that again kinda defeats the purpose of bitcoin. in fact all of this could probably be achieved much simpler by just using a stablecoin on tron, solana or one of the ether chains and forget about the whole lightning sending and bitcoin hedging. I doubt you can get lower transaction costs end-to-end staying on btc.
Anon1096 1 hours ago [-]
I would guess the price for payment processing drops tremendously when you don't need to handle fraud or chargebacks at all. It's for sure worse for consumers but I do think it has its place (for example adult content that has huge chargeback risk or straight up blocked by other processors).
nohell 1 hours ago [-]
Monero is even cheaper and more useful as cadh because it's private. Anyone can see Bitcoin history and where the user got their coins.
dfish 1 hours ago [-]
They are both useful. Monero is a bit more tricky to use, there is no concept of Lightning network, you still have to wait around 7 minutes for the transaction to settle.
It's not bad, but it is different. The transparency in Bitcoin is a feature not a bug.
Really? Did we IT people decide giving up privacy for security is a good idea?
grim_io 57 minutes ago [-]
The main grifters care for neither.
samantha-wiki 2 hours ago [-]
Is it open source? If not, why choose the name “OpenNode”?
gosub100 12 minutes ago [-]
Open for scammers, rug pulls, and money laundering
iamsaitam 1 hours ago [-]
Avoid trademarking fees! No need to spend money on trademarking what can't be trademarked ;)
a3w 1 hours ago [-]
So, OpenAI is certainly never trademarked? /s
cwmma 1 hours ago [-]
they just lost a case in Europe about being trademarked
askonomm 2 hours ago [-]
Just like how OpenAI is open source.
giancarlostoro 1 hours ago [-]
Open as in "The door is open come in and give us your money"
Retr0id 2 hours ago [-]
"Open as in wallet"
pelagicAustral 2 hours ago [-]
OpenAI rings a bell
aantix 2 hours ago [-]
Genuine question - why would someone hold bitcoin for regular, everyday purchases?
The buying power is all over the place.
dfish 1 hours ago [-]
Someone who doesn't have good fiat rails like third-world countries.
Or people who just don't want to be part of the fiat system.
Or both.
mothballed 2 hours ago [-]
This has tradfi banking ramps. You don't need to hold it. You can treat BTC as basically a payment network instead of something like the visa/mastercard cartel.
stymaar 1 hours ago [-]
This was thr original intent of thr Satoshi paper, except BTC is probably the worst payment network you can think about, which is why it failed to gain any use as such over the past 18 years…
dfish 1 hours ago [-]
I sent a transfer from the UAE to Spain and another one to the Netherlands. They took 5 days and 7 days respectively.
The same transfer takes 10 minutes in Bitcoin.
You don't do transfers to pay for stuff at the grocery store, the same way you would not pay using the Bitcoin network. You would use lightning network, which takes less than 2 seconds finality.
Max-q 1 hours ago [-]
That usage is not a generic payment usage. This is a use case it is good for. But if 8 billion people should use Bitcoin for their everyday shopping, that is a totally different case...
swinglock 7 minutes ago [-]
Wire transfer is better?
lesuorac 1 hours ago [-]
Worst for whom?
Lack of chargeback risk seems nice for businesses.
Retr0id 1 hours ago [-]
afaict, the main advantages of buying things with crypto are (potentially) lower transaction fees and latencies, and less red tape restricting who can buy what from whom. If you use a "tradfi onramp", doesn't it negate all of that? Why not just use tradfi all the way, for that transaction?
greyface- 1 hours ago [-]
Even if you're willing to operate fully in the "tradfi" system, your counterparty might not be, and you still want their business.
mothballed 1 hours ago [-]
There is no requirement to use the tradfi ramps. It is merely offered as an option. But as it pertains to banking in the USA, a couple differentiating qualities I will offer before the goalposts will inevitably be shifted yet again to damn my response
1) Settlement time (wires only sporadically free in US, plus usually settle slower)
2) Irreversibility.
3) The tradfi ramps, if used, only have to be OK with crypto ramp, rather than the whole host of underlying transactions. It is conceivable some banks will tolerate crypto while not tolerating, say, directly handling a particular transaction.
4) Lowered friction for international transaction
5) One or both sides can be unbanked.
jancsika 1 hours ago [-]
> (potentially) lower transaction fees
<transactionFeeDiscussion>
Citation needed. I'm looking at the transaction fees for lightning network and they are in the range of FedNow or RTP.
For Bitcoin it's not even close.
</transactionFeeDiscussion>
tenuousemphasis 1 hours ago [-]
Yes, it goes up and down. Fiat currency only goes down. It's a lot more fungible than stocks.
They've been in business for a long time and I used them when I experimented with QR code for street artists to receive tips. OpenNode is very simple to implement!
You request $100, the customer pays 0.00152 BTC, and then you get $99.
But 0.00152 BTC is almost $100? If I’m a business why would I pay $100 in BTC fees for a $100 transaction?
What is this solving? I’ll never understand crypto.
Edit: nvm I’m dumdum. Will get coffee. Thanks to everyone who replied.
tremarley 1 hours ago [-]
$100 is the transaction value,it is not the cost of the transaction fees.
The fee is $1. They charge a 1% fee for instant payouts.
jonbwhite 1 hours ago [-]
You don't. They are accepting $100 worth of BTC, converting it to dollars and giving you the dollars. They are basically operating like a credit card processor with a 1% fee, allowing you to accept bitcoin but operate in dollars.
bastawhiz 1 hours ago [-]
It sounds like the fee is about $1.00: the delta between $100 and $99.
dfish 1 hours ago [-]
??
The merchant requests 100 USD. The user pays X BTC equivalent to 100 USD. The merchant receives 99 USD aka the fee is 1 USD
seany 27 minutes ago [-]
This would be more interesting with other coins. Monero or cash come to mind
5701652400 53 minutes ago [-]
when we will finally have good self-hosted, open-source, BTC gateways?
jdw64 2 hours ago [-]
American-style words are really hard these days. I thought 'open' meant source code is available, but at some point, starting with OpenAI, it seems like 'open' has come to mean 'we'll open your wallet.
repelsteeltje 1 hours ago [-]
The ambiguity of the word "Open" has a long history. Going back to at least late 1980s, when X Window "skin" OPEN LOOK (by AT&T - Sun consortium) had license issues and Open Source Foundation started work on OSF Motif.
jrm4 1 hours ago [-]
Obligatory "Stallman was right" here.
Seriously, though. Without legal teeth and against marketing, "Open" never much stood a chance.
5701652400 54 minutes ago [-]
not your keys, not your money.
jrm4 59 minutes ago [-]
Interesting to see that this crypto thing might still have legs, as someone who's invested a lot of time (and thankfully, not a painful amount of money) into the idea.
Yes, it's scam city too, but it will be interesting to see if "permissionless money" actually happens and how.
And for the record, most people here pointing out that bitcoin itself, as perhaps this "opennode" may be useless here, are correct. Bitcoin mostly can no longer do what it says on the box, but newer forms can.
charcircuit 2 hours ago [-]
>Bitcoin - the only legitimate cryptocurrency secure enough for transacting at scale.
I prefer the trend of using stable coins for payment instead. I think merchants are much more willing to work with a digital dollars than with something with constantly fluctuating value.
nohell 1 hours ago [-]
Stablecoins frequently get frozen by Tether and Circle for arbitrary reasons, as if an AI system is flagging
charcircuit 33 minutes ago [-]
DAI exists and is not able to be frozen, but if the merchant's AI system flags a bitcoin transaction do you think you'll be able to cash that out? Just because they can't block it at the protocol level that doesn't mean they'll sign the transaction to send it to you.
dfish 1 hours ago [-]
Stablecoins can be censored. You deposited into Huobi 5 years ago? Banned. Now we keep your stablecoins, thanks for playing.
You can't censor Bitcoin.
charcircuit 32 minutes ago [-]
>You can't censor Bitcoin.
Your payment processor could be legally restricted from paying you your bitcoin.
nohell 1 hours ago [-]
As a Chinese person I can confirm. Monero is the way.
w4yai 2 hours ago [-]
Glad to see such initiative on bitcoin !
octocop 2 hours ago [-]
Looks solid
mothballed 2 hours ago [-]
If they don't swoop in with random check-ins hassling you for docs for "muh KYC" and "muh AML compliance" the moment you do anything outside of the boring middle ground then they're ahead of basically 99+% of all the other tradfi-interlocking offerings.
dfish 1 hours ago [-]
It is what it is. You have to implement KYC if you want fiat rails. A merchant can't KYC every single person that comes to the store. But you could build a system to eventually ban wallets that could be tied to criminal activity.
The merchant can also pick to use Lightning and keep the Bitcoin instead of selling it for fiat.
nohell 1 hours ago [-]
Why not just accept Monero? It acts more like cash. Do you really want to leak every transaction you've ever done, every time you buy something?
Bitcoin is surveillance capitalism dream!
Cider9986 58 minutes ago [-]
Bitcoin is slow as well, unusable for payments. I still think Bitcoin is better than fiat because at least it doesn't require an ID to make a wallet and it's self custody.
Monero is the best crypto we have for currencies, though. And currency is the only value I see in crypto.
Rendered at 16:38:24 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
For whoever posted, your cost calculator should be first thing on the page, and you "How we calculated this number" link is broken
Really? Did we IT people decide giving up privacy for security is a good idea?
The buying power is all over the place.
Lack of chargeback risk seems nice for businesses.
1) Settlement time (wires only sporadically free in US, plus usually settle slower)
2) Irreversibility.
3) The tradfi ramps, if used, only have to be OK with crypto ramp, rather than the whole host of underlying transactions. It is conceivable some banks will tolerate crypto while not tolerating, say, directly handling a particular transaction.
4) Lowered friction for international transaction
5) One or both sides can be unbanked.
<transactionFeeDiscussion>
Citation needed. I'm looking at the transaction fees for lightning network and they are in the range of FedNow or RTP.
For Bitcoin it's not even close.
</transactionFeeDiscussion>
You request $100, the customer pays 0.00152 BTC, and then you get $99.
But 0.00152 BTC is almost $100? If I’m a business why would I pay $100 in BTC fees for a $100 transaction?
What is this solving? I’ll never understand crypto.
Edit: nvm I’m dumdum. Will get coffee. Thanks to everyone who replied.
The fee is $1. They charge a 1% fee for instant payouts.
The merchant requests 100 USD. The user pays X BTC equivalent to 100 USD. The merchant receives 99 USD aka the fee is 1 USD
Seriously, though. Without legal teeth and against marketing, "Open" never much stood a chance.
Yes, it's scam city too, but it will be interesting to see if "permissionless money" actually happens and how.
And for the record, most people here pointing out that bitcoin itself, as perhaps this "opennode" may be useless here, are correct. Bitcoin mostly can no longer do what it says on the box, but newer forms can.
I prefer the trend of using stable coins for payment instead. I think merchants are much more willing to work with a digital dollars than with something with constantly fluctuating value.
You can't censor Bitcoin.
Your payment processor could be legally restricted from paying you your bitcoin.
The merchant can also pick to use Lightning and keep the Bitcoin instead of selling it for fiat.
Bitcoin is surveillance capitalism dream!
Monero is the best crypto we have for currencies, though. And currency is the only value I see in crypto.