This sounds like an incredible deal, doesn't it? Transforming a capital cost to an operational cost is fantastic. The total cost to use over 2 years is also much lower on this kind of thing. I suppose the reason not to use it is that you can use an old device for much longer. My wife and parents are on an iPhone 13 and I'm on an iPhone 16. The cost over that period is consequently much lower.
In any case, doesn't this sound like an insane contract for Klarna to have signed? It's freaking Apple. Mind blowing deal for a buy-now-pay-later company to sign. Imagine being in the chain for an Apple product. What a coup.
nerdjon 2 hours ago [-]
The math for the new program is kinda perplexing, my guess is that they are hoping that most people just will send in the device and upgrade.
> If you decide to buy the device, the purchase option fee is the list price minus any lease payments you’ve made minus any remaining discounts or trade-in credit. (excluding tax and any damage fees).
Lets look at a couple examples:
iPhone 17 pro max would be $1199 to buy (~1273 with tax) or $34.99 for 24 months totaling $839.76. So would cost 433.33 at the end of the lease to keep it
The cheapest 16" MBP would be 2,999 to buy (3186.44 with tax) or $57.99 for 36 months (or 80.99 for 24 months). 2087.64 or 1943.76. So around ~1k to buy it at the end.
It looks like you can keep making payments for 6 months to lower the buyout price a little bit.
So worst case scenario this is a 3 and a half year interest free loan with a higher payment at the end.
Seems not terrible? As long as you treat it as a loan and not a lease you can end at any point it seems fine and nothing really shady about it. You still have the option to own the device for the original cost.
Other than the loss of the iPhone upgrade program and the yearly upgrades, am I missing something here? I guess the biggest thing is you likely can't just pay it off and be done with it if you had the money.
paxys 38 minutes ago [-]
> iPhone 17 pro max would be $1199 to buy (~1273 with tax) or $34.99 for 24 months totaling $839.76. So would cost 433.33 at the end of the lease to keep it
A lot of people aren’t going to have that $433 at the end of the lease to purchase the device outright, and so will have to roll it into another 2-year monthly payment, and another one after that.
So the goal of the program is the same as every other similar one - they want to turn a one-time device purchase into a perpetual monthly revenue stream, while keeping ownership of the asset at the end.
lesuorac 49 seconds ago [-]
> while keeping ownership of the asset at the end.
But they're not actually interest in owning 2 year old phones though right?
They're just interest in you / 2ndary market not owning any?
enahs-sf 1 hours ago [-]
It feels like there’s a psychological component here for you to feel obliged to upgrade at the end of the 2 or 3 year term. Who wants to pay $1k for a 3 year old MacBook? Trading in/up will feel natural. It does feel less and less like you own the hardware though.
nerdjon 1 hours ago [-]
That I could see, I guess the question comes down to how often to people upgrade. That comes down to discipline.
Is a 3 year upgrade cycle for a MacBook Pro unreasonable? Would you get a lower spec machine since you were not trying to maximize the life of the machine? I know I always tend to overspec my machine to keep it for as long as possible.
My M3 MBP with 36GB of ram (looks like it was about 2500 3 years ago) would get me $945 in trade in credit. May be able to get more on eBay but I can't argue with just doing trade in is easier. A bit less than I would "save" by just upgrading at the end of the lease and this already is not the base model so the number does shift.
Especially when I look at the payment options right now I could finance that MBP about $250 on my Apple Card for 12 months no interest, or $57.99 for 36 months. and then I get a new one.
Would probably depend on what it is I was doing with the machine, am I doing tasks that would actually benefit from better and better machines like video editing and similar tasks or am I just using my computer fairly basic in a way that even an M1 machine still handles just fine.
dgellow 10 minutes ago [-]
> Is a 3 year upgrade cycle for a MacBook Pro unreasonable?
For a personal machine? Yes that’s something I see as unreasonable, MacBook Pros have a very long lifespan. M1 laptop are still pretty awesome machines. For a business an upgrade every 3 years could make sense
halJordan 56 minutes ago [-]
Is that terrible though? You're saving $1000 on a 2/3 year cadence. I'm not a fan of the one size must fit all mentality, and that the one size is the conception that we must all run every piece of he into the ground before replacing it.
SkiFire13 8 minutes ago [-]
You're saving $1000 if you were normally throwing away your 2/3 year old phone instead of selling it to someone else.
1 hours ago [-]
MrGilbert 16 minutes ago [-]
If I were good at financial math (which I'm not), I would calculate that against a regular loan. E.g., how high would the interest be, if you were to keep the device.
gruez 5 minutes ago [-]
its interest free
fckgw 1 hours ago [-]
They still have a 12mo lease term if you want to upgrade yearly.
dgellow 8 minutes ago [-]
Wait, do people actually upgrade yearly? I always thought it was hyperbolic
apercu 19 minutes ago [-]
"You'll own nothing and you will love it"
acmnrs 2 hours ago [-]
The iPhone Upgrade Program was a 24-month 0% financing program for iPhones. The replacement Apple Upgrade<https://www.apple.com/shop/apple-upgrade> is a leasing program that also covers iPads, Macs, and Apple Watches.
Instead of automatically owning the device after making all payments, you can choose return/upgrade/buy it at the end of the lease. The new program is backed by Klarna instead of Citizens Bank, uses a soft credit check, and no longer includes AppleCare+ by default.
The fact that the page is not particularly clear about any of this should tell you everything you need to know about this change.
Someone 1 hours ago [-]
> and no longer includes AppleCare+ by default.
On the one hand that gives users an option.
On the other hand, that is a way to hide a price increase. Also, those doing this are almost obliged to take AppleCare, as (https://www.apple.com/shop/apple-upgrade):
“What do I do if my device gets lost or is stolen?
If you have AppleCare+ Theft and Loss for your iPhone, iPad, or Apple Watch, you can file a claim at mysupport.apple.com/theftandloss.
If you don't have AppleCare+ Theft and Loss coverage and your device is stolen or lost, you'll need to close out your lease by paying the early termination fee or choose to pay the purchase option fee (plus any applicable taxes and fees). You can do that at an Apple Store, or through the Klarna app. You can then start a new lease with Apple Upgrade, finance with Apple, or buy your next device with a one-time payment.
You will continue to be charged your monthly lease payments until you either pay the early termination fee or purchase option fee. If you take no action, Klarna will continue to charge you your monthly lease payment through the extension period, and you will be charged the purchase option fee through Klarna.”
monocularvision 2 hours ago [-]
Yes, this appears to be entirely about raising the price of iPhones without raising the cost of iPhones. Most people don’t buy it out right so they need a way to ease the prices raised by keeping the monthly payments around the same. The difference is you have to return the phone at the end instead of owning it.
999900000999 2 hours ago [-]
More tricks to hide rising prices across the board.
Looks like a recession indicator to me.
kgwgk 1 hours ago [-]
I wish we got some shrinkflation and they brought back the iPhone mini.
ahmd-sh 2 hours ago [-]
perhaps even a... great depression indicator? (ref: wvfrm ep. 364)
Retr0id 9 minutes ago [-]
Man, the concept of leasing a phone is grim. The way hardware gets locked down these days, it feels like you never really own it in the first place. Leasing makes it explicit: you don't.
You'll own nothing and you'll feel weird about it.
bdcravens 2 hours ago [-]
Additionally, the loan program was administered by Citizens Bank, not Apple.
xp84 2 hours ago [-]
Seems like a good place to also mourn the canonical best iPhone financing method - the blissfully simple Apple Card payment plan. They got rid of it[1] (except if you're engaging in the postpaid carrier contract foolishness) in 2023, which coincidentally was the last time I felt the need to get a new iPhone.
I know a lot of people use postpaid, but I can't understand why. I'd challenge anyone to justify that decision, given that the phone "deals" are rarely even much of a subsidy as opposed to a financing scheme that acts as a contract, and the plans cost about triple what I pay every month, for fewer features and equivalent at best priority and speeds.
I'm on Verizon postpaid, 4 lines on Unlimited Plus for $31/line. That's hard to beat pre-paid for comparable service. Yes, I have to threaten to leave Verizon once a year to get them to add a bunch of customer loyalty discounts, but that's not less work than switching pre-paid carriers to chase deals.
I subscribe to /r/NoContract/ so I have a pretty good idea what's out there.
Visible+ is a comparable pre-paid plan, it's $29/mo but that's a teaser rate and to keep it past one year, you'd have to port out and port back in for whatever deal they have in one year. The normal price is $35/mo, so I'm beating that. (Visible would also mean managing 4 separate accounts since they have no multi-line plans.)
Total Wireless is a bit cheaper ($26/mo) but I keep reading terrifying customer service issues with them including most recently losing number during the porting process.
Aside, I briefly used US Mobile earlier this year to port a VoIP line to Google Voice (GV will only port-in mobile numbers). US Mobile's customer service is exceptional. Would recommend them heartily for pre-paid service. But they don't currently beat what I'm getting from Verizon post-paid. I'd consider them if I can't keep my loyalty discounts next year.
phoghed 3 minutes ago [-]
My internet provider (Spectrum) is a Verizon MVNO and is cheaper than that. I’ve got two lines and a watch add on for $70/mo, and I don’t even have their internet service anymore because I switched to a better fiber to the door provider.
I check with people that come around or in random stores if they can beat it, alas they cannot.
Velocifyer 6 minutes ago [-]
Metro By T-Mobile works well, if you navigate through the website to find the $25/month ($30 without autopay or for the first month) postpaid unlimited plan. It is a T-Moblie MVNO.
It is hard to get eSIM to work, but they have good customer service (but you need accses to a phone to call them, so you should try something like textnow or Google Voice) which helped my friend set it up.
It is not a intruductory offers, AFIK.
jerlam 28 minutes ago [-]
Visible has a family/friends plan - called "Inner Circle" - that comes with a $5/month discount on the Visible+ or Pro plans, and allows one account to pay for all the others.
js2 5 minutes ago [-]
Ah, cool, looks like they added that about a year ago. I hadn't looked at Visible recently.
alexjplant 1 hours ago [-]
> I know a lot of people use postpaid, but I can't understand why.
Two reasons: data caps and device cost.
People want iPhones but they cost $1000 outright which isn't a small amount of cash these days so they roll the cost of the device into their monthly bill. The average consumer also doesn't understand how mobile data versus 802.11 works - their kid doesn't activate Wi-Fi on their phone or download anything, they see a large number with "GB" on the end, and they pay whatever is necessary to keep the Instagram scrolling and Disney+ flowing.
Buying an iPhone outright, flipping the old one every few years (they hold their value well) and using a $30 a month 10GB plan is doable if you have money and are savvy enough to download podcasts and use your home's AP for data.
Carriers certainly aren't incentivized to educate consumers better since they'd rather make money on device installments and milk them for hundreds of dollars a month because they "have a large family and need a lot of data". Home broadband marketing is even worse - why a family of four "needs" 500 Mbps down is absolutely beyond me. In an ideal society consumer literacy would be taught in school but I'm not holding my breath.
electriclove 1 hours ago [-]
Do family plans require them to be postpaid?
js2 1 hours ago [-]
The 0% financing fine print is as follows:
> Financing available to qualified customers, subject to credit approval and credit limit, and requires you to select Citizens One Apple iPhone Payments or Apple Card Monthly Installments (ACMI) as your payment type at checkout at Apple. In order to buy an iPhone with ACMI, you must select one of the following carriers (but you cannot use a prepaid carrier plan): AT&T, T-Mobile, or Verizon. An iPhone purchased with ACMI is always unlocked, so you can switch carriers at any time, subject to your carrier’s terms.
socalgal2 56 minutes ago [-]
I'm not sure I understand all the hate in this thread.
I had a friend who bought a new Mac every year, selling his old Mac. His calculation was that it was about the same price as keeping one Mac and upgrading every 5 years.
I'd consider leasing a Mac through this program. I priced one out, with the options I chose it's $8149, lease for $177 (6372 for 3yrs, 8496 for 4yrs).
Yes, at the end of those 3 years I don't have a mac, I have to keep paying, but I'd prefer a new Mac every 3yrs and it's just easier than trying to sell it for $1777. It doesn't seem like a bad deal to me, plenty of people lease cars. Plus, if you consider you can keep your moneny in interest earning account, then at 3% you'd end up with $2256
I'm not saying that makes it a good deal for you, but I personally like the idea of not paying out $8149 day one, especially for something I know has a shelf life. I'm on an 2021 M1 Mac. It works great. But I've also tried to run 70b LLMs and run out of memory (64g), so I think about upgrading to 128g which, being Apple, I can only do by buying a new mac.
swat535 46 minutes ago [-]
I don't see the point for consumers. Perhaps a minority will buy a new model every year but many people keep their devices for years to come.
Companies that require frequent hardware refreshes would benefit from this, though Apple already had has programs for those.
Aurornis 2 hours ago [-]
Interesting decision. As far as I can tell, the iPhone Upgrade Program was structured like a loan where you owned the device but kept making payments. You then had the option to trade up to a new phone and add more months to the loan, or to pay out the remainder of the loan (24 months?)
They’re discontinuing this and replacing it with Apple Upgrade, which is structured as a lease. Apple owns the device and you make payments. You either return the device or buy it out at the end.
The distinction probably doesn’t matter much to the typical consumer, other than the final price differences. Some people have an emotional attachment to knowing they own the phone instead of leasing it (I’m emotionally attached to this position, however illogical) but in the end it comes down to having a device in your hand for a monthly payment.
squirreljak 8 minutes ago [-]
I don’t see what’s the big deal about this tbh. They’re probably making this financing program for the soon to be announced iPhone and MacBook ultras, which will be more expensive than we expect
OrangeDelonge 2 hours ago [-]
Makes sense they discontinued it given that the last 5 iphones have been almost exactly the same
meatmanek 2 hours ago [-]
Indeed. I used to be on the upgrade program so I could upgrade every year, but decided to skip the 16 and keep my 15 until the 17 came out.
Even if you are upgrading every single year, it works out roughly the same to just buy every phone outright and then trade in last year's model -- you typically get ~half your purchase price back as trade-in value after a year anyway.
2 hours ago [-]
xp84 2 hours ago [-]
Hey that's not fair, there has been one actually useful "innovation" -- switching to USB-C like the rest of the world has been using for 10 years. Literally nothing has made me feel the slightest craving for a new iPhone since getting my 15 Pro Max.
wxw 2 hours ago [-]
> To make way for Apple Upgrade — a new experience that offers more products and terms that work for you — we’re saying goodbye to the iPhone Upgrade Program.
It looks like this leasing program is just moving into a more generic/Apple-wide offering... not sure if the fine print changes.
[edit: from the comments, it sounds like the difference is it was previously 0% interest financing and no longer is]
bri3d 25 minutes ago [-]
It's "just" a restructuring; the previous setup was a really bizarre financial product where Citizens Bank gave you a 24-month 0% personal loan to buy an iPhone, but Apple would also buy your phone and loan out and sell you a new one every 12 months.
Now it's just a normal lease product with a 0% money factor through Klarna, that also works across Apple.
What this does is gives Apple more "price flexibility" (aka, they can raise prices more easily, which was probably a lot of the driver for this), but also gives consumers more buying power flexibility since it's a simple product that works across the board rather than a bizarre iPhone specific optimized financial instrument.
fckgw 1 hours ago [-]
The new Apple Upgrade is also 0%, but has lower monthly payments and a balloon payment at the end, like a typical lease. It's not just cost / 24mo.
amazingamazing 12 minutes ago [-]
People whine about everything. This is a free loan compared to Apple MSRP.
philamonster 2 hours ago [-]
This is my last iPhone/smartphone (13 mini).
recursivedoubts 2 hours ago [-]
legit could be your last phone ever, why upgrade?
alonzomorning77 1 hours ago [-]
apple upgrade forced obsolescence maybe?
recursivedoubts 42 minutes ago [-]
if you are willing to run an old OS (and the OS's are getting worse too) then I think you should be OK
LoganDark 18 minutes ago [-]
"Leases are provided by Klarna". Great. Klarna doesn't want to give me a high limit, so this is actually worse.
My MacBook Pro was over $6,000 refurbished, and this was before Apple raised prices.
tamimio 2 hours ago [-]
So this new one seems like hardware-as-a-service subscription, the hardware is basically rented out, and since everything is linked to apple account it’s easier to lock it remotely if you don’t pay that month. They are probably planning to increase the prices and are introducing this model so it looks less of a payment method, except you don’t even own it.
paxys 34 minutes ago [-]
But Apple is doing it so it is good!
IAmGraydon 2 hours ago [-]
So they're going to subtract the residual from the price and divide that by some term, just like leasing a car. Doesn't seem like a bad way to get a phone and in the end, they just automatically own the residual instead of buying it from you. It seems like a more predicable way to do the same thing most people are already doing.
xp84 2 hours ago [-]
I think "most people" have been shifting towards longer than 24-month replacement cycles. Leasing with a fixed end is probably predicted in their financial models to do a better job of getting more people onto a strict 24 month cycle. Nobody will want to actually buy out their lease on a 2-year-old phone, so they'll turn it in and lease another one, so Apple can throw it into the shredder[1] and show an additional sale on their books.
Are the prices competitive with the used market? Just one datapoint: I know someone who tried to trade in a laptop; Apple offered ~$200, eBayers were buying for ~$400.
paxys 1 hours ago [-]
No there’s a big gap, but it is meant for people who want a guaranteed amount without going through the trouble of selling it privately.
drnick1 1 hours ago [-]
This kind of business model is just another manifestation of "you'll own nothing and be happy."
Unless you are happy with Apple or Google literally owning your phone and everything in it, the solution is to buy a Pixel, with cash, unlock the bootloader, and flash GrapheneOS.
thewebguyd 1 hours ago [-]
Except in this case, you can still choose to own it at the end of the lease. The total lease price (if you buy it at the end) is the exact same as the retail price, there's no interest and no extra fees.
drnick1 1 hours ago [-]
The issue is deeper than than. Even if you buy, not lease, the iPhone, you don't control the software. Apple is still the effective owner, and tells you what you can and can't run on your own device. Worse, Apple is able to remotely inject user-hostile programs, such as the planned CSAM scanner that was planned but ultimately abandoned[0].
All of that is true, but has nothing to do with the new payment plan apple just released.
kotaKat 1 hours ago [-]
question, since I couldn't find it anywhere in the terms yet: Does iPhone Upgrade Program also require the iPhone be placed into the new "partner financial lock" status, seperate of the SIMlock status (which will remain unlocked)?
It will be curious to see if the first Klarna defaults will start triggering a future Restricted Mode on the phone and the parts get blacklisted from re-use.
I assume certain apps will get an entitlement from Apple to enable/disable this on the device.
They're switching to a lease model. Almost certainly because of the cost of components, but also in their interests to continue the "you'll own nothing" trend. They're even using Klarna as the leasing provider.
iscoelho 2 hours ago [-]
The Apple Upgrade lease model isn't even a replacement as you have to wait 24 months before upgrading.
The entire point of the iPhone Upgrade Program was to make it painless to swap to the newest iPhone every year. Without that, there's no value proposition.
smith7018 2 hours ago [-]
They have 12 month options for the Apple Upgrade program. I just checked how much it would cost to get an iPhone 17 PM + AppleCare+ with theft protection like I currently get from the IUP and it's $3 more a month.
iscoelho 2 hours ago [-]
I stand corrected! This doesn't look too bad then.
smith7018 1 hours ago [-]
I mean, it is $36 more a year but I guess that's not terrible. What will be interesting is the tax paid up front. IIRC, I paid tax on the entire device every time I renewed rather than just paying it during each month. So I always thought it wasn't the best deal because I paid tax on a device that I only ended up paying off half of before renewing and starting the process again. I could be wrong, though. I'm not the best with finances.
IAmGraydon 2 hours ago [-]
I don't know about you, but I like to own things that appreciate. Why would I care about leasing something that just loses value as time passes? This is not a bad way to get your phone, IMO.
thewebguyd 1 hours ago [-]
Yeah, especially considering most people already do this in some fashion but through their carriers (at least in the US) w/ carrier financing + those extra $10/month "upgrade anytime" programs and they end up paying more than what leasing from Apple will work out to.
Especially if you're someone who upgrades every year. 12 month option on a 17PM works out to ~$599 for the year vs. $1199 each year. $599 is roughly what you'd pay for each years new model assuming you trade in your previous gen each time, so at worst it's even with what an annual upgrader was paying already, at best you might make out a little better (assuming you are just doing trade-ins and not private sale).
There's no interest or fees, and you get to buy it out at the end if you want to own it, and the lease price is the same as the retail price, I see no downside.
viccis 1 hours ago [-]
Historically, owning them meant when one person upgrades, other family members could get their old ones. I use my old iPhone as a dev phone for iOS coding. I can also just enjoy having a working device that I'm not still paying for once it's paid off.
The iUP was better about giving the choice to just buy it out at the end. This one is more rigid:
>Terminating your Apple Upgrade Lease: Closing your lease and returning your device terminates your lease. You may incur substantial fees if you terminate your lease before the end of your initial lease term. You may have the option to upgrade to a new device by entering into a new lease agreement and returning your prior device. If you upgrade, your new monthly payments may be greater than your prior monthly payments. If you do not upgrade, terminate your lease, or purchase your device by the end of the initial lease term, the lease will convert to a month-to-month lease for up to six months. Your monthly payments may increase during the month-to-month periods. If you take no action at the end of your extension period, you will be charged the purchase fee under your lease. You will not own your device at the end of your lease, unless you pay the purchase fee. Insurance is not included in your lease, and you may incur damage fees if the device is lost, stolen, or not returned in the condition required by the lease.
Partnering with Klarna explains it quite a bit. They make money on penalties. This new plan has all sorts of sticks it will beat you with if you stray off the path, so it's perfect for them.
r0fl 2 hours ago [-]
Leasing isn’t “I can’t afford to buy it.” It’s about capital allocation.
Why would I tie up $1,200 upfront in a device that’s going to be obsolete in a couple of years when I can spread the cost over time, preserve cash flow, and (if it’s a legitimate business expense) deduct the lease payments?
Keeping $1,200 in my business earning a return is often worth more than prepaying for a depreciating asset.
People happily lease $80,000 vehicles for exactly these reasons. Applying the same logic to a $1,200 phone isn’t irrational, just the same financing decision at a much smaller scale.
thewebguyd 1 hours ago [-]
Yeah everyone's naysaying this but it seems like a no brainer?
There's no interest, no fees. The total lease price (if you buy out at the end) is the same as the retail price. There's no downside to it at all.
If you are someone who upgrades annually, you're now paying ~$599 split over 12 payments vs. ~$1199 up front and either trading in or trying to sell your last gen privately. It works out to about even on a trade-in->upgrade every year cycle, only you don't have to fork over the $600 up front.
Pay $32/mo (so $770 total) to use an iPhone for two years and then give it back to Apple.
This is truly the most dystopian timeline.
filoleg 2 hours ago [-]
> Pay $32/mo (so $770 total) to use an iPhone for two years and then give it back to Apple.
At the end of your device lease term, you have an option to buy out your leased device. With the buy out cost being equal to the device sticker price minus the amount you had already paid on your lease.
This seems pretty fair to me tbh.
Aurornis 2 hours ago [-]
> This is truly the most dystopian timeline.
Why? Leasing has always been an option that some people and businesses prefer, depending on the circumstances. It’s commonly done with cars. In business situations leasing can be very common because it works well with your cash flow and doesn’t require taking more debt on your books.
You can buy out the item at the end of the lease term. Some people like this optionality because they get to defer the purchase decision into the future and benefit from any new information, like whether or not a new iPhone is worth upgrading to or how the battery is holding up.
paxys 2 hours ago [-]
The fact that we need to use the financing models of cars for basic consumer electronics is the dystopian part.
darrenf 4 minutes ago [-]
Then I guess we’ve been in the dystopia for almost a century now. When I was a kid in the 70s and 80s we leased our TV and VCR. It was hugely common in the UK, the company was on many high streets and literally called Radio Rentals, founded 1930: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Rentals
> Radio Rentals was the largest television rental group in the UK and claimed that at its peak it had more than two million customers, more than 500 shops, 3,600 technicians, 2,700 skilled installers and a large ancillary staff. It had sales and service locations across the UK; the Radio Rentals logo being a common sight on many High Streets.
Aurornis 1 hours ago [-]
You don’t need to do it. It’s an option.
Also calling the latest iPhone “basic consumer electronics” is out of touch. The budget options are older generation iPhones or other phones, not one of the most expensive brands on the market.
fckgw 1 hours ago [-]
You can still just buy it. This is another payment option.
iamnothere 51 minutes ago [-]
For now
tekla 1 hours ago [-]
"need" is doing a lot of work for a luxury product
The most dystopian thing about this timeline is how completely normalised corporate propaganda is.
> While our customers have loved the iPhone Upgrade Program, we’re always looking for ways to give them more flexibility, better value, and a more seamless experience.
If I were malicious dictator for life, there would be a special section in my gulags for the people who write copy that entails telling customers it's raining while pissing on them.
opengrass 1 hours ago [-]
If you're dumb enough to buy a new phone this weekend, you're a big enough schmuck to come to Apple! Bad deals! Phones that break down! Planned obsolescence! If you think you're going to get updates for the Pro Max, you can kiss my ***! It's our belief that you're such a stupid mother******, you'll fall for this bull****! Guaranteed! If you find a better phone, shove it up your ugly ***! You heard us right! Shove it up your ugly ***!
Rendered at 19:55:24 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
In any case, doesn't this sound like an insane contract for Klarna to have signed? It's freaking Apple. Mind blowing deal for a buy-now-pay-later company to sign. Imagine being in the chain for an Apple product. What a coup.
If I am reading the FAQ here properly: https://www.apple.com/shop/apple-upgrade.
> If you decide to buy the device, the purchase option fee is the list price minus any lease payments you’ve made minus any remaining discounts or trade-in credit. (excluding tax and any damage fees).
Lets look at a couple examples:
iPhone 17 pro max would be $1199 to buy (~1273 with tax) or $34.99 for 24 months totaling $839.76. So would cost 433.33 at the end of the lease to keep it
The cheapest 16" MBP would be 2,999 to buy (3186.44 with tax) or $57.99 for 36 months (or 80.99 for 24 months). 2087.64 or 1943.76. So around ~1k to buy it at the end.
It looks like you can keep making payments for 6 months to lower the buyout price a little bit.
So worst case scenario this is a 3 and a half year interest free loan with a higher payment at the end.
Seems not terrible? As long as you treat it as a loan and not a lease you can end at any point it seems fine and nothing really shady about it. You still have the option to own the device for the original cost.
Other than the loss of the iPhone upgrade program and the yearly upgrades, am I missing something here? I guess the biggest thing is you likely can't just pay it off and be done with it if you had the money.
A lot of people aren’t going to have that $433 at the end of the lease to purchase the device outright, and so will have to roll it into another 2-year monthly payment, and another one after that.
So the goal of the program is the same as every other similar one - they want to turn a one-time device purchase into a perpetual monthly revenue stream, while keeping ownership of the asset at the end.
But they're not actually interest in owning 2 year old phones though right?
They're just interest in you / 2ndary market not owning any?
Is a 3 year upgrade cycle for a MacBook Pro unreasonable? Would you get a lower spec machine since you were not trying to maximize the life of the machine? I know I always tend to overspec my machine to keep it for as long as possible.
My M3 MBP with 36GB of ram (looks like it was about 2500 3 years ago) would get me $945 in trade in credit. May be able to get more on eBay but I can't argue with just doing trade in is easier. A bit less than I would "save" by just upgrading at the end of the lease and this already is not the base model so the number does shift.
Especially when I look at the payment options right now I could finance that MBP about $250 on my Apple Card for 12 months no interest, or $57.99 for 36 months. and then I get a new one.
Would probably depend on what it is I was doing with the machine, am I doing tasks that would actually benefit from better and better machines like video editing and similar tasks or am I just using my computer fairly basic in a way that even an M1 machine still handles just fine.
For a personal machine? Yes that’s something I see as unreasonable, MacBook Pros have a very long lifespan. M1 laptop are still pretty awesome machines. For a business an upgrade every 3 years could make sense
Instead of automatically owning the device after making all payments, you can choose return/upgrade/buy it at the end of the lease. The new program is backed by Klarna instead of Citizens Bank, uses a soft credit check, and no longer includes AppleCare+ by default.
The fact that the page is not particularly clear about any of this should tell you everything you need to know about this change.
On the one hand that gives users an option.
On the other hand, that is a way to hide a price increase. Also, those doing this are almost obliged to take AppleCare, as (https://www.apple.com/shop/apple-upgrade):
“What do I do if my device gets lost or is stolen?
If you have AppleCare+ Theft and Loss for your iPhone, iPad, or Apple Watch, you can file a claim at mysupport.apple.com/theftandloss.
If you don't have AppleCare+ Theft and Loss coverage and your device is stolen or lost, you'll need to close out your lease by paying the early termination fee or choose to pay the purchase option fee (plus any applicable taxes and fees). You can do that at an Apple Store, or through the Klarna app. You can then start a new lease with Apple Upgrade, finance with Apple, or buy your next device with a one-time payment.
You will continue to be charged your monthly lease payments until you either pay the early termination fee or purchase option fee. If you take no action, Klarna will continue to charge you your monthly lease payment through the extension period, and you will be charged the purchase option fee through Klarna.”
Looks like a recession indicator to me.
You'll own nothing and you'll feel weird about it.
I know a lot of people use postpaid, but I can't understand why. I'd challenge anyone to justify that decision, given that the phone "deals" are rarely even much of a subsidy as opposed to a financing scheme that acts as a contract, and the plans cost about triple what I pay every month, for fewer features and equivalent at best priority and speeds.
[1] https://9to5mac.com/2023/06/15/apple-card-financing-sim-free...
I subscribe to /r/NoContract/ so I have a pretty good idea what's out there.
Visible+ is a comparable pre-paid plan, it's $29/mo but that's a teaser rate and to keep it past one year, you'd have to port out and port back in for whatever deal they have in one year. The normal price is $35/mo, so I'm beating that. (Visible would also mean managing 4 separate accounts since they have no multi-line plans.)
Total Wireless is a bit cheaper ($26/mo) but I keep reading terrifying customer service issues with them including most recently losing number during the porting process.
Aside, I briefly used US Mobile earlier this year to port a VoIP line to Google Voice (GV will only port-in mobile numbers). US Mobile's customer service is exceptional. Would recommend them heartily for pre-paid service. But they don't currently beat what I'm getting from Verizon post-paid. I'd consider them if I can't keep my loyalty discounts next year.
I check with people that come around or in random stores if they can beat it, alas they cannot.
It is hard to get eSIM to work, but they have good customer service (but you need accses to a phone to call them, so you should try something like textnow or Google Voice) which helped my friend set it up.
It is not a intruductory offers, AFIK.
Two reasons: data caps and device cost.
People want iPhones but they cost $1000 outright which isn't a small amount of cash these days so they roll the cost of the device into their monthly bill. The average consumer also doesn't understand how mobile data versus 802.11 works - their kid doesn't activate Wi-Fi on their phone or download anything, they see a large number with "GB" on the end, and they pay whatever is necessary to keep the Instagram scrolling and Disney+ flowing.
Buying an iPhone outright, flipping the old one every few years (they hold their value well) and using a $30 a month 10GB plan is doable if you have money and are savvy enough to download podcasts and use your home's AP for data.
Carriers certainly aren't incentivized to educate consumers better since they'd rather make money on device installments and milk them for hundreds of dollars a month because they "have a large family and need a lot of data". Home broadband marketing is even worse - why a family of four "needs" 500 Mbps down is absolutely beyond me. In an ideal society consumer literacy would be taught in school but I'm not holding my breath.
> Financing available to qualified customers, subject to credit approval and credit limit, and requires you to select Citizens One Apple iPhone Payments or Apple Card Monthly Installments (ACMI) as your payment type at checkout at Apple. In order to buy an iPhone with ACMI, you must select one of the following carriers (but you cannot use a prepaid carrier plan): AT&T, T-Mobile, or Verizon. An iPhone purchased with ACMI is always unlocked, so you can switch carriers at any time, subject to your carrier’s terms.
I had a friend who bought a new Mac every year, selling his old Mac. His calculation was that it was about the same price as keeping one Mac and upgrading every 5 years.
I'd consider leasing a Mac through this program. I priced one out, with the options I chose it's $8149, lease for $177 (6372 for 3yrs, 8496 for 4yrs).
Yes, at the end of those 3 years I don't have a mac, I have to keep paying, but I'd prefer a new Mac every 3yrs and it's just easier than trying to sell it for $1777. It doesn't seem like a bad deal to me, plenty of people lease cars. Plus, if you consider you can keep your moneny in interest earning account, then at 3% you'd end up with $2256
I'm not saying that makes it a good deal for you, but I personally like the idea of not paying out $8149 day one, especially for something I know has a shelf life. I'm on an 2021 M1 Mac. It works great. But I've also tried to run 70b LLMs and run out of memory (64g), so I think about upgrading to 128g which, being Apple, I can only do by buying a new mac.
Companies that require frequent hardware refreshes would benefit from this, though Apple already had has programs for those.
They’re discontinuing this and replacing it with Apple Upgrade, which is structured as a lease. Apple owns the device and you make payments. You either return the device or buy it out at the end.
The distinction probably doesn’t matter much to the typical consumer, other than the final price differences. Some people have an emotional attachment to knowing they own the phone instead of leasing it (I’m emotionally attached to this position, however illogical) but in the end it comes down to having a device in your hand for a monthly payment.
Even if you are upgrading every single year, it works out roughly the same to just buy every phone outright and then trade in last year's model -- you typically get ~half your purchase price back as trade-in value after a year anyway.
https://www.apple.com/shop/apple-upgrade
It looks like this leasing program is just moving into a more generic/Apple-wide offering... not sure if the fine print changes.
[edit: from the comments, it sounds like the difference is it was previously 0% interest financing and no longer is]
Now it's just a normal lease product with a 0% money factor through Klarna, that also works across Apple.
What this does is gives Apple more "price flexibility" (aka, they can raise prices more easily, which was probably a lot of the driver for this), but also gives consumers more buying power flexibility since it's a simple product that works across the board rather than a bizarre iPhone specific optimized financial instrument.
My MacBook Pro was over $6,000 refurbished, and this was before Apple raised prices.
[1] https://www.ifixit.com/News/94386/the-truth-about-apples-fre...
Unless you are happy with Apple or Google literally owning your phone and everything in it, the solution is to buy a Pixel, with cash, unlock the bootloader, and flash GrapheneOS.
[0] https://9to5mac.com/2023/09/01/csam-scanning-flaw/
https://9to5mac.com/2026/07/21/ios-27-code-suggests-apple-co...
It will be curious to see if the first Klarna defaults will start triggering a future Restricted Mode on the phone and the parts get blacklisted from re-use.
I assume certain apps will get an entitlement from Apple to enable/disable this on the device.
edit: confirmed they aren't... yet.
https://www.theverge.com/tech/972063/apple-upgrade-program-n...
The entire point of the iPhone Upgrade Program was to make it painless to swap to the newest iPhone every year. Without that, there's no value proposition.
Especially if you're someone who upgrades every year. 12 month option on a 17PM works out to ~$599 for the year vs. $1199 each year. $599 is roughly what you'd pay for each years new model assuming you trade in your previous gen each time, so at worst it's even with what an annual upgrader was paying already, at best you might make out a little better (assuming you are just doing trade-ins and not private sale).
There's no interest or fees, and you get to buy it out at the end if you want to own it, and the lease price is the same as the retail price, I see no downside.
The iUP was better about giving the choice to just buy it out at the end. This one is more rigid:
>Terminating your Apple Upgrade Lease: Closing your lease and returning your device terminates your lease. You may incur substantial fees if you terminate your lease before the end of your initial lease term. You may have the option to upgrade to a new device by entering into a new lease agreement and returning your prior device. If you upgrade, your new monthly payments may be greater than your prior monthly payments. If you do not upgrade, terminate your lease, or purchase your device by the end of the initial lease term, the lease will convert to a month-to-month lease for up to six months. Your monthly payments may increase during the month-to-month periods. If you take no action at the end of your extension period, you will be charged the purchase fee under your lease. You will not own your device at the end of your lease, unless you pay the purchase fee. Insurance is not included in your lease, and you may incur damage fees if the device is lost, stolen, or not returned in the condition required by the lease.
Partnering with Klarna explains it quite a bit. They make money on penalties. This new plan has all sorts of sticks it will beat you with if you stray off the path, so it's perfect for them.
Why would I tie up $1,200 upfront in a device that’s going to be obsolete in a couple of years when I can spread the cost over time, preserve cash flow, and (if it’s a legitimate business expense) deduct the lease payments?
Keeping $1,200 in my business earning a return is often worth more than prepaying for a depreciating asset.
People happily lease $80,000 vehicles for exactly these reasons. Applying the same logic to a $1,200 phone isn’t irrational, just the same financing decision at a much smaller scale.
There's no interest, no fees. The total lease price (if you buy out at the end) is the same as the retail price. There's no downside to it at all.
If you are someone who upgrades annually, you're now paying ~$599 split over 12 payments vs. ~$1199 up front and either trading in or trying to sell your last gen privately. It works out to about even on a trade-in->upgrade every year cycle, only you don't have to fork over the $600 up front.
Pay $32/mo (so $770 total) to use an iPhone for two years and then give it back to Apple.
This is truly the most dystopian timeline.
At the end of your device lease term, you have an option to buy out your leased device. With the buy out cost being equal to the device sticker price minus the amount you had already paid on your lease.
This seems pretty fair to me tbh.
Why? Leasing has always been an option that some people and businesses prefer, depending on the circumstances. It’s commonly done with cars. In business situations leasing can be very common because it works well with your cash flow and doesn’t require taking more debt on your books.
You can buy out the item at the end of the lease term. Some people like this optionality because they get to defer the purchase decision into the future and benefit from any new information, like whether or not a new iPhone is worth upgrading to or how the battery is holding up.
> Radio Rentals was the largest television rental group in the UK and claimed that at its peak it had more than two million customers, more than 500 shops, 3,600 technicians, 2,700 skilled installers and a large ancillary staff. It had sales and service locations across the UK; the Radio Rentals logo being a common sight on many High Streets.
Also calling the latest iPhone “basic consumer electronics” is out of touch. The budget options are older generation iPhones or other phones, not one of the most expensive brands on the market.
> While our customers have loved the iPhone Upgrade Program, we’re always looking for ways to give them more flexibility, better value, and a more seamless experience.
If I were malicious dictator for life, there would be a special section in my gulags for the people who write copy that entails telling customers it's raining while pissing on them.