This kind of observation is a big deal for solar physics.
It's been believed for decades that these small-scale (~100km and below) turbulent features are critical to understanding how energy dissipates in the Sun. And thus, how sunspots and flares form.
The subject has been very qualitative but is yielding on both observational and simulation fronts. I worked adjacent to this area from the 1990s-2010s, and it had been true that MHD numerical simulations of significant volumes of the Sun (but at a scale fine enough to resolve these features) were not possible. That has obviously changed!
Additionally, it had been that the best solar observatories could not quite resolve these features. In the late 1990s some of the best images came from a couple of observatories in the Canary Islands (e.g., the 1-meter Swedish telescope -- https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/4715/). The spatial resolution was perhaps in the ~100km range.
Of course, these are absolutely mind-boggling images. You're looking at a slice of the solar photosphere that has a temperature such that it activates a spectral line around 400nm. By isolating that wavelength, we can see what's happening at that temperature, and thus, sample a slice of the photosphere.
So, that had been the state of affairs. Now DKIST (4m aperture), with the particular instrument highlighted in OP, appears to be at a spatial resolution ~5x finer than the above imagery -- see Fig. 1c in the Nature paper (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-026-10871-3). It appears also (https://dkist.virtualsolar.org/vanNoortfastcam/) to be observing at 740Hz (!) for speckle reconstructions at ~1Hz.
At this scale, vortices of the flow are well-resolved -- where before you just resolved the convective cells but not the turbulent features around them. It's these turbulent features that are transporting energy.
To contextualize with respect to a HN perennial topic: DKIST (commissioned 2021) is funded by NSF, from the same pile of money that once funded Arecibo (up to 2020).
robertlucas 14 hours ago [-]
Thanks a lot for sharing your experience with us.
I worked adjacent to this area from the 1990s-2010s when the topic is solar physics is definitely why this forum is one of the last "places" of the internet.
mturmon 8 hours ago [-]
Sure thing.
Remote sensing of the Sun is different from anything else, because you have so many photons. The idea of binning it down so fine (20x20km, 740Hz, a single nm of spectrum around a band center) is unheard of for any other target.
2 hours ago [-]
perpetuallunch 1 hours ago [-]
> The subject has been very qualitative
What does this mean?
CGMthrowaway 1 hours ago [-]
"Qualitative" means that the field had good conceptual theories, but didn't have sufficient observational and computational resolution to determine the detailed numerical values
Eyeing that title and given the more more concrete article introduction sentence
> Scientists using the U.S. National Science Foundation Daniel K. Inouye Solar Telescope have made a major breakthrough in solar physics, discovering Kelvin-Helmholtz Instability on the surface of the Sun — a finding that could help explain explosive solar activity and other solar phenomena.
Perhaps it make sense to unclickbait the title by replacing "a hidden solar process" with "Kelvin-Helmholtz instability"
The Sun impresses me. So much energy to dish out, so little of that is taken by planet Earth yet it helped yield and maintain life. Now what will happen when that energy is taken away ...
caymanjim 59 minutes ago [-]
The sun will destroy the earth long before it stops providing energy.
perpetuallunch 1 hours ago [-]
Why would the sun’s energy be taken away?
Razengan 2 hours ago [-]
We still have our core
There may be rogue planets out there sustaining life far from any star..
modeless 2 hours ago [-]
I wonder if we will ever discover life inside stars. There's definitely complex stuff going on in there.
ReptileMan 2 hours ago [-]
You need some form of plasma that is stable and able to self organize. Is there any part of the physics where this is possible?
andrewflnr 11 minutes ago [-]
Stuff like a field-reversed configuration comes to mind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field-reversed_configuration Conceivably, more complex plasma configurations could exist that are self-stabilizing enough to, you know, exist, but unstable enough to interact with each other in complex ways. Realistically... I doubt it. I'd love to hear from someone who knows about plasma dynamics, but I'd expect their answer to be more pessimistic, not less.
shevy-java 2 hours ago [-]
You mean inside of a sun or so?
Current life depends heavily not only on RNA/DNA, but also water. I can not see how it is possible to have an information system (such as RNA/DNA) without water possible. Enzymes, even of extremophilic organisms, have a fairly small range where they can work. I think the temperature record is at about 122°C or so as highest temperature. At 150°C, if I recall correctly, ATP has a life cycle of 0.1 seconds or even less than that. Life is very fragile on every level.
In principle one could think of synthetic biology maximizing on all aspects including scenarios not constrained by "classical" life, but even then I can not really imagine how it were based on RNA/DNA without water. One could dispute whether metabolism belongs to life, but even if we were to state that metabolism need not be a defining feature (viruses may not need metabolism on their own, but they are cellular parasites, and in turn energy is required to maintain life, even if it is a dormant life stage such as seeds or what not), I can not imagine a system that could function differently here without a need for water.
If you mean any other solar system in general then it is pretty likely that life is possible on many of them, but logically there would have to be conditions that could yield life, and I think this is quite difficult. For instance, there is no life on Mars and never was, despite NASA trying to milk more money for a "quest" (besides, any such quest is pointless as there is already life on Earth, I fail to see the logic addiction here that more life has to be found "outside"; if the evolution of life is logical, and I believe it is, then it really is irrelevant how often this exists outside of this planet).
If you refer just to stars alone then I do not see how the conditions can yield life. The heat is extreme, it destabilizes almost everything. Even the radiation is deadly. Earth is rather rare here in conditions, see the term Goldilock planets.
modeless 2 hours ago [-]
Obviously not based on DNA/RNA. I think it is pretty lacking in imagination to believe that DNA/RNA in liquid water is the only possible configuration of atoms that could make a self-replicating and evolving organism.
jibal 2 hours ago [-]
Imagination is great for writing science fiction but it doesn't change the laws of physics that make the sort of organization needed for life impossible. You write "configuration of atoms" but there's no such thing within stars.
zakki 1 hours ago [-]
In Islamic teaching it is said that there are 2 otjer life forms. The first one is Angels, they are created from light. The second one is Jinn, they are created from smokeless fire.
Jinn is like human being, they need to drink, eat, have sex, have family,etc.
I don't know how to prove that.
Rendered at 02:05:48 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
It's been believed for decades that these small-scale (~100km and below) turbulent features are critical to understanding how energy dissipates in the Sun. And thus, how sunspots and flares form.
The subject has been very qualitative but is yielding on both observational and simulation fronts. I worked adjacent to this area from the 1990s-2010s, and it had been true that MHD numerical simulations of significant volumes of the Sun (but at a scale fine enough to resolve these features) were not possible. That has obviously changed!
Additionally, it had been that the best solar observatories could not quite resolve these features. In the late 1990s some of the best images came from a couple of observatories in the Canary Islands (e.g., the 1-meter Swedish telescope -- https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/4715/). The spatial resolution was perhaps in the ~100km range.
Of course, these are absolutely mind-boggling images. You're looking at a slice of the solar photosphere that has a temperature such that it activates a spectral line around 400nm. By isolating that wavelength, we can see what's happening at that temperature, and thus, sample a slice of the photosphere.
So, that had been the state of affairs. Now DKIST (4m aperture), with the particular instrument highlighted in OP, appears to be at a spatial resolution ~5x finer than the above imagery -- see Fig. 1c in the Nature paper (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-026-10871-3). It appears also (https://dkist.virtualsolar.org/vanNoortfastcam/) to be observing at 740Hz (!) for speckle reconstructions at ~1Hz.
At this scale, vortices of the flow are well-resolved -- where before you just resolved the convective cells but not the turbulent features around them. It's these turbulent features that are transporting energy.
To contextualize with respect to a HN perennial topic: DKIST (commissioned 2021) is funded by NSF, from the same pile of money that once funded Arecibo (up to 2020).
I worked adjacent to this area from the 1990s-2010s when the topic is solar physics is definitely why this forum is one of the last "places" of the internet.
Remote sensing of the Sun is different from anything else, because you have so many photons. The idea of binning it down so fine (20x20km, 740Hz, a single nm of spectrum around a band center) is unheard of for any other target.
What does this mean?
https://knockaround.com/products/duckduckgo-paso-robles
> Scientists using the U.S. National Science Foundation Daniel K. Inouye Solar Telescope have made a major breakthrough in solar physics, discovering Kelvin-Helmholtz Instability on the surface of the Sun — a finding that could help explain explosive solar activity and other solar phenomena.
Perhaps it make sense to unclickbait the title by replacing "a hidden solar process" with "Kelvin-Helmholtz instability"
There may be rogue planets out there sustaining life far from any star..
Current life depends heavily not only on RNA/DNA, but also water. I can not see how it is possible to have an information system (such as RNA/DNA) without water possible. Enzymes, even of extremophilic organisms, have a fairly small range where they can work. I think the temperature record is at about 122°C or so as highest temperature. At 150°C, if I recall correctly, ATP has a life cycle of 0.1 seconds or even less than that. Life is very fragile on every level.
In principle one could think of synthetic biology maximizing on all aspects including scenarios not constrained by "classical" life, but even then I can not really imagine how it were based on RNA/DNA without water. One could dispute whether metabolism belongs to life, but even if we were to state that metabolism need not be a defining feature (viruses may not need metabolism on their own, but they are cellular parasites, and in turn energy is required to maintain life, even if it is a dormant life stage such as seeds or what not), I can not imagine a system that could function differently here without a need for water.
If you mean any other solar system in general then it is pretty likely that life is possible on many of them, but logically there would have to be conditions that could yield life, and I think this is quite difficult. For instance, there is no life on Mars and never was, despite NASA trying to milk more money for a "quest" (besides, any such quest is pointless as there is already life on Earth, I fail to see the logic addiction here that more life has to be found "outside"; if the evolution of life is logical, and I believe it is, then it really is irrelevant how often this exists outside of this planet).
If you refer just to stars alone then I do not see how the conditions can yield life. The heat is extreme, it destabilizes almost everything. Even the radiation is deadly. Earth is rather rare here in conditions, see the term Goldilock planets.
I don't know how to prove that.