NHacker Next
  • new
  • past
  • show
  • ask
  • show
  • jobs
  • submit
The efficient frontier of LLM inference (baseten.co)
ttoinou 3 hours ago [-]

   Inference techniques either move a deployment along the latency–throughput frontier or push the entire frontier out, creating more efficiency to allocate.
This is a tautology. You can say that with anything. Gastronomy techniques will make a previous recipe better, or create a new recipe better than others, or a mix of both.
Ifkaluva 58 minutes ago [-]
The point is to classify them into two kinds. The kind that shifts the frontier is more powerful, since improves capabilities without incurring tradeoffs.
philipkiely 32 minutes ago [-]
I also wrote this as somewhat of a defense of the techniques that don't move the frontier -- there is a lot of value in being able to pick a point on the curve.
brrrrrm 3 hours ago [-]
this is a nice and concise writeup. what's striking to me is that these techniques really have not changed in /years/. sure, precision has become slightly lower, spec decoding acceptance has gotten slightly better and the complexity of parallelism is trickier with mixture of experts. but no new concepts in a very long time!

the absolute most impactful improvements for inference comes at architecture design time. I firmly believe everyone who cares about impacting model efficiency should look there

philipkiely 3 hours ago [-]
I think the biggest net new recent technique is P/D disaggregation. And that spec dec is very different now especially post DSpark/DFlash.

But overall yes the fundamentals of LLM performance optimization have been remarkably stable over the last few years.

brrrrrm 2 hours ago [-]
perhaps its unfair to say this in hindsight, but it's a fairly straightforward application of little's law that's been around for some time

https://arxiv.org/html/2401.09670v2

Ozzie-D 2 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
datadrivenangel 3 hours ago [-]
The author does not deeply mention that quality/intelligence is a third dimension here in addition to throughput and latency, and the frontier is jagged so quality and intelligence require bespoke benchmarks to evaluate tradeoffs for speed and cost.
philipkiely 3 hours ago [-]
These are both good points that I attempted to cover, quotes:

> In practice, the efficient frontier is very jagged. Rather than a smooth, continuous line between outcomes, small changes can have big impacts. These cutoff points are often unintuitive and must be discovered empirically through sweeps.

> However, quantization introduces a new set of tradeoffs between quality and serving efficiency. This is a particularly jagged frontier, where a large degree of improvement to serving efficiency is possible with little-to-no reduction in model quality, especially when using microscaling floating-point number formats like MXFP4 and NVFP4.

Would appreciate ideas on how to explain in greater depth

calclavia 3 hours ago [-]
good recap on the recent inference techniques!
paidx 3 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
jing09928 2 hours ago [-]
[dead]
nedo_var 3 hours ago [-]
[dead]
killerdog10 2 hours ago [-]
[dead]
Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact
Rendered at 03:52:28 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.