I remember hearing this quote from a HCI prof in the late 90's. I repeated this to a person who was in nursing, and they replied that helping babies figure out nipples (i.e. "latching") is actually a common problem for new mothers[1].
It's worth considering that survivor bias plays a role in the perceived intuitiveness of nipples.
came here to say the same :) if nipples would be intuitive there wouldn't be an entire business of lactation consultants
gregw2 2 hours ago [-]
Yeah, this is one of those quotes that is cute/clever... until you have kids and learn or experience how common 'latching' problems are.
It's pretty distressing to watch the desperation and the struggle of a baby screaming and a mom trying but unable to feed her baby.
Then the quote sort of turns from clever into a sign of a bit of real-life ignorance.
stvltvs 2 hours ago [-]
There's a deeply ingrained mythos around how natural and easy motherhood is, but in nature, a lot of first time mothers are rather mediocre. It takes a while learn how to do all those "natural" things like nursing the baby.
And let's not forget that babies kinda suck (intended) at doing "natural" things too.
OroPla 2 hours ago [-]
It used to be that people had between six and twelve children, so all children grew up among babies learning this crucial knowledge from their parents and younger siblings. They'd end up having children within a few years of moving out, too, so there was no forgetting about it, either.
HeyLaughingBoy 26 minutes ago [-]
> lot of first time mothers are rather mediocre
I had a hen who was sitting on a clutch of eggs this summer. Did everything right: kept them warm, turned them regularly, etc.
Then one hatched and she promptly lost interest in the rest, leaving them to die.
talon8635 1 hours ago [-]
Yup. Horny teens can figure out their genitalia combo much easier than many infants figure out latching
NoMoreNicksLeft 7 minutes ago [-]
I once read an account of an octogenarian woman in a nursing home. A new doctor was assigned to her. Looking over the medical records, she'd had chronic urinary infections her entire adult life, until her husband passed away. She had urinary incontinence her entire adult life. They never had any children, though not for lack of trying.
Turns out that her husband had been penetrating her urethra throughout their marriage. When the old woman was questioned about these medical issues by the doctors, she told him that though it had hurt the first time, she expected it to and never thought much of it. Nor had she connected the onset of incontinence and infections with the act.
So no, I don't think that this is necessarily true, either.
dingaling911 16 minutes ago [-]
Story of my life.
JohnFen 2 hours ago [-]
What's "intuitive" really just boils down to "what you're used to".
An intuitive user interface is one that leverages patterns the user has already internalized. That's why there is no single user interface that is intuitive for everybody.
Baby can have unfixable latching problems (as commented elsewhere)
Breasts may not produce enough milk even with pumping
Nipples and Breasts can get infected and seriously endanger the mother
waterheater 2 hours ago [-]
As a dad, I think nipple detection is hardwired, but latching might take some work. Two additional considerations are user interface scaling and whether or not the backend is online.
Breast Tech (Boob Tech? Breast-Computer Interface?) is amazing. We now have wireless, heated, smart breast pumps (https://www.eufy.com/collections/breast-pump), which women from days of yore (aka 25 years ago) could have only dreamed.
2 hours ago [-]
snarky-comments 2 hours ago [-]
This might nicely augment the usual keyboard + mouse UI.
motionlessveloc 2 hours ago [-]
The IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad has featured a "nipple" for ages. It responds better to manual stimulation than sucking though.
> It responds better to manual stimulation than sucking though.
Apparently the intended use is not as intuitive as the engineers had hoped.
mcphage 2 hours ago [-]
This was something that I believed until I had kids. It turns out, even the nipple isn't fully intuitive—some babies struggle to breastfeed, and have to be taught how to do it properly.
copperx 2 hours ago [-]
But for some, it is.
JohnFen 2 hours ago [-]
Babies have a reflex (not even an instinct) to do it, but that reflex only works well if conditions are pretty close to ideal. Outside of the sweet spot, there can be all sorts of difficulties. That's the nature of reflexes.
Using a nipple isn't really intuitive. It's learned.
copperx 2 hours ago [-]
Interesting. Nothing is is intuitive then! I wonder whether reproduction is.
JohnFen 33 minutes ago [-]
We get dangerously close to a semantic difference here, but this is how I learned the categories generally work. This is not my field, so I could be wrong, of course.
Generally, you can break things down to three categories.
There are reflexes, which are when your body reacts to something without your brain needing to be involved. The latching reflex in babies, for example, or the patellar reflex (tapping the knee to make the leg jerk).
Then there are instincts. Instincts involve the brain, and so generally don't appear in human infants immediately. Instincts are like pre-written scripts encoded in us, but require a level of development before those scripts can be executed.
Then there are learned behaviors. Things that are "intuitive" fall into this category. Something is intuitive if a behavior you already know well can be applied the activity.
Reproduction is instinctive (and it's an instinct that, in humans, doesn't really show up until much closer to sexual maturity). It's not intuitive. If you've never been exposed to or taught how to have sex, you'll still feel the desire and be able to do it. Maybe not well, but you can get the job done.
joshdavham 1 hours ago [-]
But what about male nipples?
deadbabe 2 hours ago [-]
It is definitely not the only intuitive interface if you’re talking about bodies.
gdubicki 2 hours ago [-]
So, also the TrackPoint.
sublinear 2 hours ago [-]
What's considered intuitive isn't intrinsic to the design. It's always relative to the previous preferred design, and there is no known base case to anchor onto.
The nipple comes well after lots of crying and grasping for other things, but why would first experiences have anything to do with best experiences anyway?
I think most designers are deeply aware of this already, so why do we keep talking about design this way?
animitronix 52 minutes ago [-]
Eh, there's a difference between intuitive and instinctive
ekjhgkejhgk 1 hours ago [-]
I think the pussy is more intuitive.
Rendered at 21:52:47 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
It's worth considering that survivor bias plays a role in the perceived intuitiveness of nipples.
___________
[1]https://breastfeeding.support/when-baby-wont-breastfeed/
It's pretty distressing to watch the desperation and the struggle of a baby screaming and a mom trying but unable to feed her baby.
Then the quote sort of turns from clever into a sign of a bit of real-life ignorance.
And let's not forget that babies kinda suck (intended) at doing "natural" things too.
I had a hen who was sitting on a clutch of eggs this summer. Did everything right: kept them warm, turned them regularly, etc.
Then one hatched and she promptly lost interest in the rest, leaving them to die.
Turns out that her husband had been penetrating her urethra throughout their marriage. When the old woman was questioned about these medical issues by the doctors, she told him that though it had hurt the first time, she expected it to and never thought much of it. Nor had she connected the onset of incontinence and infections with the act.
So no, I don't think that this is necessarily true, either.
An intuitive user interface is one that leverages patterns the user has already internalized. That's why there is no single user interface that is intuitive for everybody.
Is it true that “the only ”intuitive“ interface is the nipple”? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4412372 - Aug 2012 (23 comments)
Baby can have unfixable latching problems (as commented elsewhere)
Breasts may not produce enough milk even with pumping
Nipples and Breasts can get infected and seriously endanger the mother
Breast Tech (Boob Tech? Breast-Computer Interface?) is amazing. We now have wireless, heated, smart breast pumps (https://www.eufy.com/collections/breast-pump), which women from days of yore (aka 25 years ago) could have only dreamed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick
Apparently the intended use is not as intuitive as the engineers had hoped.
Using a nipple isn't really intuitive. It's learned.
Generally, you can break things down to three categories.
There are reflexes, which are when your body reacts to something without your brain needing to be involved. The latching reflex in babies, for example, or the patellar reflex (tapping the knee to make the leg jerk).
Then there are instincts. Instincts involve the brain, and so generally don't appear in human infants immediately. Instincts are like pre-written scripts encoded in us, but require a level of development before those scripts can be executed.
Then there are learned behaviors. Things that are "intuitive" fall into this category. Something is intuitive if a behavior you already know well can be applied the activity.
Reproduction is instinctive (and it's an instinct that, in humans, doesn't really show up until much closer to sexual maturity). It's not intuitive. If you've never been exposed to or taught how to have sex, you'll still feel the desire and be able to do it. Maybe not well, but you can get the job done.
The nipple comes well after lots of crying and grasping for other things, but why would first experiences have anything to do with best experiences anyway?
I think most designers are deeply aware of this already, so why do we keep talking about design this way?