> Of the 42 names that moved toward girls, 34 were driven mainly by an increase among girls, rather than a decline among boys.
> Surprisingly, the same pattern held in the opposite direction. Of the 12 names that moved toward boys, 9 shifted mainly because fewer girls were receiving them, rather than because more boys were. In other words, whichever way a name moved, the biggest change usually came from girls.
This is consistent with the observation that girl's names are more dynamic.
conductr 52 minutes ago [-]
I have no data but feel that boys tend to get the family names and biblical names (in US anyways). It's rare to hear of a girl named Elizabeth III or Mary Junior but quite common for those concepts in boys. So I think the boy names are heavily weighted on probably the most popular ~25 or so names. Since girl names are more free to follow whatever is fashionable at the time, trends move faster.
My son is named after his grandfather, and it's an overly common name in English (American and British). Definitely a top 3 most common for last several centuries
vforgione 43 minutes ago [-]
Anecdata: I’m a guy and a III. My son almost was a IV but we chose another first name and used my (and my dad’s and my grandfather’s) name for his middle name. My great grandfather had a different name, but I think his dad and maybe grandfather had the same name as me.
georgeburdell 21 minutes ago [-]
Not to offend, but I think it has declined because this naming of Jr, III, and so on has come to be associated with poor or rural people. For what it’s worth, I have a relative who is a IV
cogogo 7 minutes ago [-]
Never heard that framing before. In New England the practice is associated with blue-blood wealth.
conductr 33 minutes ago [-]
I’d agree the trend is waning if that’s what you’re getting at but I think it is baked into the history of this dataset and is also still significantly more common for boys than girls
Also, IV is really quite rare for boys too. Junior still super common.
macintux 28 minutes ago [-]
> I have no data but feel that boys tend to get the family names and biblical names (in US anyways).
Curiously, in the last few months in the U.S. I've met a Tamar and an Esther, both women given family names that were drawn from the bible.
zamadatix 1 hours ago [-]
It seems there are lots of cases across the board where "women adopt traditionally male thing" has become the norm in this timeframe but not many where "men adopt traditionally female thing" at quite the same rate or scale.
wredcoll 24 minutes ago [-]
I think there's something to this, but also you've got to think about the cultural standards where "female" is considered "abnormal".
e.g. you have "toys" and "girl toys". "clothes" and "girl clothes" and such. It's not everywhere or everything but there is a trend.
smelendez 15 minutes ago [-]
Yeah, a woman wearing pants to an office job became totally normal. A man wearing a dress or skirt would be assumed to be transitioning gender or wearing a costume.
boringg 16 minutes ago [-]
That is the pattern. Rarely would you have a baby boy using a women's name. Broadly speaking there is a general stigma within society going the other direction then women adopting male things.
sandworm101 5 minutes ago [-]
Marion Morrison was a definitive male role model.
jmaw 53 minutes ago [-]
> This is consistent with the observation that girl's names are more dynamic.
Interesting, I wonder what causes this? In the US, is more common to name the first son after the father. Given this data comes from US social security information, that definitely has an impact.
ecshafer 1 hours ago [-]
There are a few names I think are being confused. Jan, short for Janice is a female name, but Jan in Central / Eastern Europe as a form of John is masculine. Jean the female name and Jean the french male name are different.
cvhc 1 hours ago [-]
Yeah immigration and mix of similar names from different languages could also be reasons for the (at least perceived) shifts.
nostrademons 54 minutes ago [-]
This is part of what they mean by girl names driving the shift. You have a traditional ethnic name that may be masculine or feminine and has a baseline low level of popularity. Then you have a popular female name that rapidly gains and loses its popularity. The effect on the mix is that it's shifting from masculine to feminine, but really you should look at it as a newly-popular female name being layered on top of the traditional name. And you can often see this in the timescale, with a clear pop-culture trigger leading to the rising girl name.
Looking at just part of the data, I can see this with Arya (Stark, Game of Thrones), Paris (Hilton), Stevie (Nicks, of Fleetwood Mac), Dakota (Fanning), and Tatum (O'neal), and the masculine trend also relates to the fading of generationally-popular names like Jean (Silent/Boomer), Pat (Boomer), Joan (Silent/Boomer), Courtney (Gen-X/Xennial), etc.
mikepurvis 33 minutes ago [-]
I was going to say the same about Jean; I think that one at least is hard to really draw conclusions from without additional data like languages spoken at home.
Anecdotally, the boy->girl names are almost all very popular names where I've met multiple each of those across different ages, whereas the other two categories feel like they have a lot more down-list entries.
crooked-v 35 minutes ago [-]
Going by the peak time on the chart, Jean flipped over fast right about when Jean-Luc entered public consciousness.
My brother was named Morgan in 1988. I think he's the only male Morgan he knows, but often had class with girls of the same name.
Fnoord 2 hours ago [-]
My biggest WTF on this (as a foreigner) was the late Lindsey Graham. I always knew Lindsey/Lindsay as a female name.
Either way, peeking through the list, seems to me names which end with a vowel are usually feminine. However, there's a caveat: names end up shortened, and over time even those get shortened.
'Brit', 'Britney' for 'Brittany'.
'Gerry' or 'Geri' or 'Ger' for 'Gareth' (Dutch variant: 'Gerrit'),
'Pat', 'Patty' for 'Patrick', 'Patricia'.
'Pen', 'Penny' for 'Penelope'
'Ash' for 'Ashley'.
'Tash' or 'Tasha' for 'Natasha', 'Nata(s)cha' (a variant of Nathan/Nathaniel?)
'Toni', 'Tony', or 'Ton' for 'Antonia', 'Anton', or 'Antonius'.
Skimming through the quick examples I came up with, one thing stands out: if it ends with an 'a', feminine. I believe this stems from Latin? It also appears Brittany is a very British example, whereas say 'Tony' stems from a Catholic background. People with that background get very traditional names, but they're always practically shortened. Annoyingly, you'd have to mention your complete name on say a form, but otherwise you get a wider choice since you have like three names, and they're relatively long so more variety to pick from.
Groxx 47 minutes ago [-]
Ends in 'a' = female: a relatively safe assumption, as far as an assumption here can be safe, with no other context. A strong majority in many places will match that. Many of the exceptions will be obviously foreign names with traditional spelling, which can go either way (may follow that culture's patterns, may not, highly varied).
Ends in vowel (sound) = female: probably mostly true, in that it may be >50%, but it's unreliable enough that I'd avoid trying to base any assumptions off it.
Names really follow no rules at all here. For both good and bad. E.g. most recently I ran across a "La-sia" pronounced "ladashsia". If it's spelled vat-ik'Nff and pronounced "King George" and they're female, then that's what's correct.
motionlessveloc 49 seconds ago [-]
See https://www.reddit.com
r/tragedies for all sorts of, uhh, inventive spellings and names.
triceratops 37 minutes ago [-]
Lindsey (as well as Ashley, Tracy, Kelly, among others) are all, I believe, last names that became given names. They skewed female over time because they end with a vowel.
Ashley Williams is the name of two American actresses as well as two male soccer players (Welsh and Liberian) and a male boxer (also Welsh).
stasomatic 1 hours ago [-]
The one that always trips me up is when a man is a Stacey.
bityard 50 minutes ago [-]
Growing up in the rural midwest, I had no idea Tracy could be a dude's name until I worked with one. (Great guy, btw.)
busymom0 59 minutes ago [-]
I had to call a customer once whose name was Courtney and it tripped me up when it turned out to be a male..
bigstrat2003 16 minutes ago [-]
When I was a kid, I was very confused by the names of Fleetwood Mac band members. It really threw me for a loop that they had a Lindsay who is a dude, and a Stevie who is a girl, both counter to my intuition about names.
IncreasePosts 1 hours ago [-]
Andrea, Simone, Nicola, Michele, Daniele in Italian are all male names, but English speakers would probably assume the person is female from the name alone.
Fnoord 36 minutes ago [-]
True, good native and traditional cultutal exceptions of a rule of thumb. Speaking for myself (NL) we have a small amount of Italian names and heritage (also due to Catholicism), and say NYC would have much more Italian descendants.
Also, as someone who saw quite some football (non-US version), I ofcourse am familiar with a lot of names. For example, Andrea Pirlo. We also learn some via history at school, since Italy plays a prominent role in Europe's history. Regarding Nicola, people might be familiar with Nikola Tesla (the 'c' in this case, sounds like 'k') and it is just a variant of 'Nico', 'Nicole', 'Nicolas'. Then there's some dude at FIFA, 'Gianni' which is a variant of 'Jean', 'Jan', 'Jeanne', 'Janet', 'Jannie', 'Janine', etc. I could go on about Gianluigi Buffon...
What I just remind myself with regards to Italian is it tends to add a vowel at end of a word or name, but it often doesn't sound same in English or my native tongue (Dutch).
petemc_ 1 hours ago [-]
There was a guy at my school named Hilary who got awful abuse for it. Always wondered why parents would do such a thing to a child.
ethagnawl 24 minutes ago [-]
Did he have a brother named Sue? If so, I might know the reason ...
> And he said, "Son, this world is rough
> And if a man's gonna make it, he's gotta be tough
> And I knew I wouldn't be there to help ya along.
> So I give ya that name and I said goodbye
> I knew you'd have to get tough or die
> And it's the name that helped to make you strong."
Johnny Cash - A Boy Named Sue
snarf21 38 minutes ago [-]
As someone with an pretty unusual name, I think kids will always find a reason to make fun of you and it isn't always just the name.
True Story: My mom was a 2nd grade teacher for 30 years and in the 70s had a student with very 'hippie" style parents. They named their son Log Cabin. You can imagine how that went over in elementary school.
LorenPechtel 58 minutes ago [-]
I suspect this is a big driver of the switch. Parents that do not want to give their boys a name that will cause issues later on.
Back in school it wasn't a problem, people knew "Loren" was male, "Lauren" was female. Now, an awful lot of people don't. It's an uncommon enough name that even if you were around back when that's how it worked you very well might not have known it.
As an adult I routinely get misgendered, but it's a so-what to me.
YeGoblynQueenne 13 minutes ago [-]
As a non-native English speaker I've learned never to gender English speakers from their names. I mean in emails and so on, when I haven't had a chance to meet them. No "Ask Ashley if she would like to join us...". "Would Ashley like to join us?" is the safe option.
macintux 23 minutes ago [-]
> As an adult I routinely get misgendered, but it's a so-what to me.
You're fortunate that the spelling is distinct. The story of Kim O'Grady is depressing.
*solely because her legal, married name is Lauren Bush Lauren. She actually changed it, which is gold (and honestly very sweet).
lrivers 37 minutes ago [-]
Loren adjacent. In high school my girlfriend was Lauren and mine is Lorin. Friends over pronounced our names to differentiate. It doesn’t bother me to get misgendered, either. It never lasts past hearing my voice or seeing me, though.
ReptileMan 1 hours ago [-]
Because it's there...
BeetleB 1 hours ago [-]
Weird comment, given that it was, not long ago, a common name for a male.
I'd wager if it weren't for Clinton, most people would still associate it with men.
zahlman 1 hours ago [-]
How "not long ago" are you thinking of? Clinton was first a major figure in the 90s (and we also had https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fresh_Prince_of_Bel-Air ). And Clinton herself is from the baby boom generation; what male Hil(l)arys from that cohort do you have in mind?
zamadatix 55 minutes ago [-]
Looks like it flipped in ~the 40s, by the ~60s had become rarer as a male name, and was pretty much a flop as a male name after the ~80s. So Clinton was born just when it started to take off for females (and in general - it was never as common as a male name) and there should have been in the same ballpark as as many male "Hilary"s of the same age.
It's kind of surprising that this is even allowed. A lot of countries require at least the first given name to match the gender. Some names might be deemed suitable for both genders.
stevekemp 14 minutes ago [-]
Finland has some naming rules, but they don't necessarily apply to everyone in the country because they're rules for naming people born here, rather than those who later moved here.
There is a public index of forenames and surnames which I learned about when I was with my pregnant wife, and back then I was obsessively searching for my/our surname to see it increase by one when our newborn was registered and became "official".
Apparently within the whole of Finland there 22 men with the same surname as me, and 25 women. 21 of these people are in Finland and 26 are abroad but known.
Interestingly if I go to the forename search and look for people named "Steve" there are < 5 women with that name (i.e. non-zero, but the number masked for privacy reasons):
I'm curious about the origin there, though of course I've seen Steve -> Steffan -> Stephany, and similar translations in the past.
macintux 19 minutes ago [-]
I'm not sure "a lot" is accurate, although certainly more than I expected.
Looks like Europe has several countries with legal requirements, although the trend there is moving the other direction, plus Chile.
Vrondi 38 minutes ago [-]
In the USA, you can name your kid what you want. This avoids one ethnic group requiring everyone to have a name from their tradition.
triceratops 49 minutes ago [-]
We associate names ending with a vowel sound with the female gender. Other than that there's nothing gendered about "Hilary" as a first name.
zahlman 1 hours ago [-]
…Why would it be surprising for the USA not to have such a requirement?
cubefox 23 minutes ago [-]
The US has unusually common unisex naming. Most other countries don't.
Jtsummers 1 hours ago [-]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilary_(name) - It's not an exclusively female name. But in the US, you can give a kid pretty much any name you want (see the names Musk gives his kids these days).
rsync 15 minutes ago [-]
Just a data point from the SFBA ...
There are a lot of Ronins. Lots.
Sometime 8-12 years ago, dads in Marin got a glint in their eye:
"My son ... the wayward samurai ..."
onlyrealcuzzo 8 minutes ago [-]
Depending on whether we model the data linearly or exponentially (like the famous Tohoku University study that found everyone in Japan will be named Sato by 2531)...
The US may reach the 100% Boy Name Ronin-ification anywhere between 2057 or 10,327 AD.
myself248 2 hours ago [-]
But Jean (English name, like Jeannie) and Jean (French form of John) are entirely different names, with different pronunciations, that happen to share the same spelling.
ekzy 1 hours ago [-]
Yep, my wife and I have the same middle name: Jean. I’m French and she’s British :)
al_borland 13 minutes ago [-]
I'm surprised Ryan wasn't on the list. Traditionally a boys name, but I know at least 3 women named Ryan. Maybe it hasn't reached a tipping point yet.
cortesoft 2 hours ago [-]
I feel like a lot of these can be tied to one famous person with the name causing the gender to flip.
sota_pop 1 hours ago [-]
Most interesting thing that stands out to me is the number of names that appear to be what I would consider an abbreviation of a more traditional name.
e.g. “Pat” is cited, but doesn’t specify whether that refers to Patricia or Patrick.
twoodfin 1 hours ago [-]
These are presumably from Social Security registrations, so reflecting official given names.
Another interesting analysis would be the movement back and forth between full names and their associated common diminutives.
jmaw 50 minutes ago [-]
Yes, the data comes from the US Social Security Administration from 1936–2025
Source: The expandable "How we measured it" section at the bottom of the page
kibwen 54 minutes ago [-]
Common nicknames eventually just become given names on their own, like "Jack" or "John" or "Alex".
goda90 2 hours ago [-]
A name I was surprised by was someone I know naming their daughter Miles/Myles, which is such a male name in my mind. It might even be based on the Latin word for soldier. It's not one I've seen used for a girl anywhere else, yet.
Terr_ 1 hours ago [-]
Edited slightly for series spoilers:
> "Well, I wish you every joy," Miles went on [...] He managed a wink. "Name the first one after me, eh?"
> "Milesia sounds like a disease," Miles admitted, taken aback. "In that case, don't. I wouldn't want her to grow up hating me in absentia."
-- Memory (1996) by Lois McMaster Bujold
In the series, Miles having a name meaning "soldier" is, er, persistently thematically significant.
YeGoblynQueenne 5 minutes ago [-]
Wow. Kind of blast from the past. I haven't read that btw, how good is it?
jtommy14 58 minutes ago [-]
I've noticed more girls are being named Parker these days. My 1yo son is named Parker. He's holding the line.
nkrisc 54 minutes ago [-]
The trend of surnames as given names is stranger to me than traditional gender reversal of names.
triceratops 31 minutes ago [-]
They go hand-in-hand. Surnames aren't gendered. Names that reverse gender are often surnames used as given names.
"John" or "Matthew" are probably never going to become female. Nor will "Elizabeth" or "Katherine" become male.
"Spencer" was male when Spencer Tracy was a big name. Today it could go either way. As a family name it relates to the profession of a steward.
frankus 10 minutes ago [-]
A surname ending in “son” could be seen as at least a little bit gendered.
triceratops 3 minutes ago [-]
You'd think so, but Allison is firmly in the girls camp today, at least in the US (Liverpool FC's male goalkeeper Alisson Becker is Brazilian). Madison is also more associated with girls.
eclipticplane 20 minutes ago [-]
s/Never trust a man with two first names/Never trust a man with two last names/.
trelane 35 minutes ago [-]
Surnames or occupations (Tanner, Cooper, etc)
UncleSlacky 22 minutes ago [-]
He can't lose!
rolandog 1 hours ago [-]
I was very much shocked to see a feminine version of my name used IIRC on Dead Or Alive 4 (DOA4), not knowing the backstory: I think it was a character called Leon was promising to avenge his dead girlfriend, Rolande.
I've wondered if the women that have carried the name have liked it? In my mind, it's always sounded very blunt so as to be feminine, but I recognize I'm heavily biased when it comes to my own name.
childev 1 hours ago [-]
Interesting data. Nightmare color scale for the colorblind.
poncho_romero 40 minutes ago [-]
Yeah I can't read the charts at all.
xnx 58 minutes ago [-]
Came here to say the same. Anyone doing data visualization should think long and hard before using something beside a line or bar chart. Almost everything else is worse in multiple ways.
Danox 1 hours ago [-]
Most of the names that flip over seem to be names associated with the gentry class, many of the names seem to be neutral, soft very inoffensive names.
ethagnawl 21 minutes ago [-]
A wonderful example of how gender is a social construct.
YeGoblynQueenne 8 minutes ago [-]
In English, maybe. Several other languages have gendered nouns, so names are not interchangeable. For example "Ιωάννης" in Greek is the male form of "John" given exclusively to male children, whereas "Ιωάννα" is the female form given exclusively to female children. No exceptions. AFAIU if a person wished to change their name from "Ιωάννης" to "Ιωάννα" they would have to go to court and change their birth gender also.
axus 1 hours ago [-]
Most surprising was "Mario" becoming shared. "Maria/Mario" seemed inherently gendered, based on the last letter.
brewmarche 48 minutes ago [-]
Interestingly if I remember correctly they have different origins, Maria is a biblical name, while Mario comes from Latin (which can decline Marius to Maria, but that’s a different word)
bhouston 1 hours ago [-]
I think it says "Marlo"? Not "Mario". L, not I.
fsckboy 1 hours ago [-]
Marlo/Marla is also inherently gendered
for people from languages that mark gender with an ending (romance languages for instance), putting the "wrong" ending something like a noun would sound odd or change the meaning
bilsbie 1 hours ago [-]
I’d be curious if men with female names get rejected out of a lot of job interviews since the employer may have thought they chose a female for DEI and then a man shows up?
Or maybe it’s a good way to get your foot in the door in todays job market.
lkramer 1 hours ago [-]
Probably more likely that they don't get the interview because the person reviewing their CV assumed they were a woman...
switchbak 35 minutes ago [-]
Ha, you had me at "person". As if people review resumes anymore!
Aperocky 1 hours ago [-]
I'm just really surprised that 21% of Lynn's are boys.
scottyah 45 minutes ago [-]
It's super hard to keep track of, I have an app that's designed to help couples name their baby, and I always wanted to stay away from hard-defined gender stuff, but people still want boy/girl categories. So many are both, but to varying degrees. I ended up using a boy/girl/unisex selector, and had Jev tag all the names. It's especially when dealing with other countries, languages, and customs. At the end of the day, it's mostly easier for the user to just swipe left on a name rather than try to pre-eliminate it from their pool.
trelane 40 minutes ago [-]
Surprised Sue wasn't mentioned. I had heard that boys had started being called Sue (sample size of 1, but very prominent).
asimovfan 2 hours ago [-]
Stevie is a girl's name now?
petcat 2 hours ago [-]
Such a thing will often happen as the result of a celebrity having the name. For instance, famed Fleetwood Mac singer Stevie Nicks, whose real name was Stephanie.
21 minutes ago [-]
saghm 2 hours ago [-]
Years ago, one of the broadcasters for a Red Sox game was doing some ad read about some event Stevie Nicks was going to be at, but they read her name as "Steve Nicks" instead. Someone else in the booth corrected them, and they responded "I know him well, and I call him Steve". A fan apparently sent them a giant poster of Stevie Nicks, and the others put it up in the booth and teased him about it relentlessly during the next game.
TFNA 2 hours ago [-]
The past tense "was" had me at least looking for an obituary. She is still very much alive
petcat 1 hours ago [-]
I was referring to the Stephanie part in the past tense. I doubt she's gone by that name since she was a child.
But yes, Stevie is very much still alive.
dfxm12 2 hours ago [-]
Interestingly enough, Lindsey, like Lindsey Buckingham, the guitarist of Fleetwood Mac, became a more popular girl's name during Fleetwood Mac's heyday.
jeremyjh 1 hours ago [-]
In the US, boys would abbreviate Stephen or Steven to Steve. Stevie only for a young boy.
I’m not sure what they are measuring here though - if it’s only birth certificates then I’m sure Stevie is dominated by girls for a long time.
stevekemp 8 minutes ago [-]
As somebody born with the name Steven I'm curious about the relative popularity of "Steven" vs. "Stephen".
I feel like when I was a child more people were present with a PH, but nowadas virtually nobody. Most of the Stephens I know are "old", and I think "Steve" won.
But no doubt it varies on country, and who you know.
(I legally changed my name from Steven to Steve, a couple of years ago, because it was the only name I'd ever used and it got too tiresome dealing with my official passport, and ID saying one name when I signed/wrote another name on all my official paperwork. To the extent that employers would book flights in one name but my passport was in the other name, cue much hilarity at boarding time..)
jeremyjh 3 minutes ago [-]
My brother was born in 1984 is Stephen. We have only ever called him by that name, Steve never stuck. At the time I thought Steven was the more common spelling already; but we were catholic and he was named for St. Stephen.
deathanatos 2 hours ago [-]
With the shift happening right after the 1976–1980 square, I'd assume people named their daughter after Stevie Nicks.
Fnoord 2 hours ago [-]
I mean, this is US-centric data, but it is probably a shortening of 'Stephanie' or 'Stefanie' [1], the female variant of 'Stephan' or 'Stefan'. It stems from Greek, apparently: Stephanos. Its variant are used entirely throughout Europe, from Portugal to Russia.
I'm gonna credit George RR Martin with flipping Arya in the mid '90s
trelane 29 minutes ago [-]
Ah, back when he still wrote.
Not that I'm bitter or anything
ape4 2 hours ago [-]
Good luck to the Perl function Text::GenderFromName()
Maybe it needs the birthday
andix 1 hours ago [-]
I guess it's eternally stuck in the 90s. I didn't see Perl in a long time now. 10-15 years ago it was still everywhere.
edit: No, it's stuck in the 80s: "The data comes from a 5% sampling of Social Security card applications with dates of birth from January 1980 through December 1989"
At what age are social security numbers issued? Folks born in 1989 weren't adults until the 2000s
boscillator 40 minutes ago [-]
Why did anyone even try and make this? It's fascinating what incomputable functions people try to shoe-horn into being computable.
rconti 1 hours ago [-]
I thought you must be joking. You were not!
Terr_ 58 minutes ago [-]
I'm sure there are a few competing "Falsehoods programmers believe about names" out there by now.
9991 1 hours ago [-]
> Failed to verify your browser
>
> Vercel Security Checkpoint | iad1::1793644520-hvXR6jD3A6jJoFcEhxLm7uNyDy9O2Ibl
Super informative article.
ranger_danger 1 hours ago [-]
What about Aaron -> Erin ?
libraryofbabel 1 hours ago [-]
Aaron is Hebrew and Erin is Irish. They just happen to sound the same.
TRiG_Ireland 57 minutes ago [-]
They don't even sound the same, except in some (not all) American accents. They don't sound even remotely similar to me.
drnick1 46 minutes ago [-]
I thought they did not, but after actually vocalizing them I would say they are basically indistinguishable in real (fast) speech.
ranger_danger 49 minutes ago [-]
Interesting, they sound exactly the same to me, and I cannot even think of how they might sound different to someone else. Care to explain?
Atreiden 48 minutes ago [-]
Not when pronounced correctly as A-Aron
TRiG_Ireland 57 minutes ago [-]
To my Irish ear, these are two completely different names, not even slightly similar. (They're also etymologically unrelated.) It blew my mind when discussions on r/namenerds revealed that many Americans consider these names similar or even identical.
spogbiper 49 seconds ago [-]
For most of my (male) life, people misspelled my name Aaron as Erin fairly regularly. I think that has contributed to the confusion. I also used to get Arron, Airon, and other variants. The "A-A-Ron" skit has made a noticeable difference in recent years.
jasonlotito 2 hours ago [-]
Sort of reminds me of the color swap of Pink and Blue for Men and Women.
xdennis 49 minutes ago [-]
You're the victim of misinformation.
In the past there were no hard associations between sexes and gender and it was possible to find boys wearing some pink clothing, but it was never the case that people associated pink with boys and blue with girls.
There are some limited examples that contribute to the misunderstanding. For example blue is often associated with the Virgin Mary and red (not pink) was considered a manly color often worn by warriors (e.g. the British, the Romans, etc).
---
This is essentially the way reporting works. If you write an article showing that in the past it wouldn't have been bizarre for boys to wear pink you don't get much traction. But if you write how pink was actually worn by boys and it was considered shocking for girls to wear it, then people find that very surprising and you get a lot of views (truth be damned).
ternaryoperator 22 minutes ago [-]
It’s easy to confirm that what you’re saying is not so. Ask AI and you'll get specific citations of pink being recommended for boys in the early 20th century: “in the early 1900s, publication guides and trade journals—such as the June 1918 issue of Earnshaw's Infants' Department—recommended pink for boys and blue for girls.”
moralestapia 2 hours ago [-]
Surprised to not see "Jordan" in there, it's the first one that came to my mind.
2 hours ago [-]
2 hours ago [-]
bhouston 1 hours ago [-]
Green to orange? Why not blue to pink? I know it is stereotypical, but it is the natural colouring.
boston_clone 1 hours ago [-]
I'm not sure what you mean by "natural" coloring, but the association you're describing has also reversed over time; i.e., pink was considered masculine and blue was considered feminine.
I have heard and I do believe that there are countries that use other colors for babies, but wouldn't trust wikipedia nor its selective sources on any topic like gender; wikipedia is no longer enslaved to the truth.
boston_clone 41 minutes ago [-]
You absolutely should trust wikipedia unless you can provide some evidence to the contrary; in fact, the linked article even has a whole section to support your doubt about the claim*('s veracity), which was interesting to read!
> In a 2017 letter to Archives of Sexual Behavior, researcher Marco Del Giudice commented on earlier claims about a supposed shift in pink–blue color associations or preferences sometime around the 1940s, from pink for boys and blue for girls before that period, to the opposite alignment afterward. He summarized his earlier work from 2012 which found "no evidence of either reversed or inconsistent usage prior to the 1940s".[41] Del Giudice called this theory the "Pink–blue reversal" (PBR), and said it was "usually attributed to [Jo] Paoletti", and quoted from five academic articles that reprised the theory of "pink is for boys" prior to the 1940s. However, he found upon analysis that it was exceptionally difficult to actually document such a shift, and exclaimed upon "the thinness of the evidence presented in support of the PBR".[42]
> In his 2012 paper, Del Giudice quoted from four articles published in academic journals which all echoed the claims about PBR theory, many relying on Paoletti, including Chiu et al., 2006: "Prior to that decade, Paoletti ... noted that the sex-dimorphic color coding of pink and blue was inverted, i.e., infant boys were dressed in pink and infant girls were dressed in blue";[43] Frassanito & Pettorini (2008): "At one point, pink was considered more of a boy's color ... blue was considered more for girls";[44] Cohen (2013): "the current stereotypical American assignment of pink to girls and blue to boys was reversed a century ago";[45] and Zucker (2005): "Yet, in the first two decades of the twentieth century, there is evidence that the gender-dimorphic nature of these two colors was inverted, that is, blue was judged to be stereotypically feminine whereas pink was judged to be stereotypically masculine."[46][47] But Paoletti never made the claim that pink and blue reversed, only that there was inconsistent usage that took until the 1950s to resolve[42] starting from the first appearances of gendered pink and blue color associations around the 1860s.[7]
tl;dr - gender is very clearly a social construct and we shouldn't get hung up on colors or names
- edited for clarity
wahern 18 minutes ago [-]
> gender is very clearly a social construct and we shouldn't get hung up on colors or names
There's another dimension to this which I think the failure to find consistent gender coding in earlier years bolsters.
There's some research that suggests gender signaling is more pronounced and starker in more modern, wealthy societies. In poorer societies people generally tend to not have the time, attention, or opportunities to invest in gender signaling, or fashion generally. Dress, etc, tended to be much more functional and less gendered for the sake of signaling. All the big examples that typically come to mind in poorer/older societies tend to be exceptional, e.g. marriage ceremonies or aristocratic fashion.
Which isn't to say there weren't ubiquitous cultural norms in fashion, just nowhere near the scope and sophistication as today. For centuries women wore dresses and now, with greater freedom, they don't nearly as often. But as a population they haven't chosen more androgynous styles, but quite the opposite. And the fashion cycle for women in particular has accelerated to an unfathomable degree. In prior eras there wouldn't have been much cultural space available for small distinctions like pink vs blue in daily garb.
fsckboy 32 minutes ago [-]
>in fact, the linked article even has a whole section to support your doubt about the claim
I didn't say I doubted the claim, in fact I went to the trouble to say I believed it. So you should try again to glean what I could have meant.
boston_clone 26 minutes ago [-]
> You absolutely should trust wikipedia unless you can provide some evidence to the contrary
ur turn to glean
Rendered at 19:35:41 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
> Surprisingly, the same pattern held in the opposite direction. Of the 12 names that moved toward boys, 9 shifted mainly because fewer girls were receiving them, rather than because more boys were. In other words, whichever way a name moved, the biggest change usually came from girls.
This is consistent with the observation that girl's names are more dynamic.
My son is named after his grandfather, and it's an overly common name in English (American and British). Definitely a top 3 most common for last several centuries
Also, IV is really quite rare for boys too. Junior still super common.
Curiously, in the last few months in the U.S. I've met a Tamar and an Esther, both women given family names that were drawn from the bible.
e.g. you have "toys" and "girl toys". "clothes" and "girl clothes" and such. It's not everywhere or everything but there is a trend.
Interesting, I wonder what causes this? In the US, is more common to name the first son after the father. Given this data comes from US social security information, that definitely has an impact.
Looking at just part of the data, I can see this with Arya (Stark, Game of Thrones), Paris (Hilton), Stevie (Nicks, of Fleetwood Mac), Dakota (Fanning), and Tatum (O'neal), and the masculine trend also relates to the fading of generationally-popular names like Jean (Silent/Boomer), Pat (Boomer), Joan (Silent/Boomer), Courtney (Gen-X/Xennial), etc.
Anecdotally, the boy->girl names are almost all very popular names where I've met multiple each of those across different ages, whereas the other two categories feel like they have a lot more down-list entries.
Either way, peeking through the list, seems to me names which end with a vowel are usually feminine. However, there's a caveat: names end up shortened, and over time even those get shortened.
'Brit', 'Britney' for 'Brittany'.
'Gerry' or 'Geri' or 'Ger' for 'Gareth' (Dutch variant: 'Gerrit'),
'Pat', 'Patty' for 'Patrick', 'Patricia'.
'Pen', 'Penny' for 'Penelope'
'Ash' for 'Ashley'.
'Tash' or 'Tasha' for 'Natasha', 'Nata(s)cha' (a variant of Nathan/Nathaniel?)
'Toni', 'Tony', or 'Ton' for 'Antonia', 'Anton', or 'Antonius'.
Skimming through the quick examples I came up with, one thing stands out: if it ends with an 'a', feminine. I believe this stems from Latin? It also appears Brittany is a very British example, whereas say 'Tony' stems from a Catholic background. People with that background get very traditional names, but they're always practically shortened. Annoyingly, you'd have to mention your complete name on say a form, but otherwise you get a wider choice since you have like three names, and they're relatively long so more variety to pick from.
Ends in vowel (sound) = female: probably mostly true, in that it may be >50%, but it's unreliable enough that I'd avoid trying to base any assumptions off it.
Names really follow no rules at all here. For both good and bad. E.g. most recently I ran across a "La-sia" pronounced "ladashsia". If it's spelled vat-ik'Nff and pronounced "King George" and they're female, then that's what's correct.
Ashley Williams is the name of two American actresses as well as two male soccer players (Welsh and Liberian) and a male boxer (also Welsh).
Also, as someone who saw quite some football (non-US version), I ofcourse am familiar with a lot of names. For example, Andrea Pirlo. We also learn some via history at school, since Italy plays a prominent role in Europe's history. Regarding Nicola, people might be familiar with Nikola Tesla (the 'c' in this case, sounds like 'k') and it is just a variant of 'Nico', 'Nicole', 'Nicolas'. Then there's some dude at FIFA, 'Gianni' which is a variant of 'Jean', 'Jan', 'Jeanne', 'Janet', 'Jannie', 'Janine', etc. I could go on about Gianluigi Buffon...
What I just remind myself with regards to Italian is it tends to add a vowel at end of a word or name, but it often doesn't sound same in English or my native tongue (Dutch).
> And he said, "Son, this world is rough
> And if a man's gonna make it, he's gotta be tough
> And I knew I wouldn't be there to help ya along.
> So I give ya that name and I said goodbye
> I knew you'd have to get tough or die
> And it's the name that helped to make you strong."
Johnny Cash - A Boy Named Sue
True Story: My mom was a 2nd grade teacher for 30 years and in the 70s had a student with very 'hippie" style parents. They named their son Log Cabin. You can imagine how that went over in elementary school.
Back in school it wasn't a problem, people knew "Loren" was male, "Lauren" was female. Now, an awful lot of people don't. It's an uncommon enough name that even if you were around back when that's how it worked you very well might not have known it.
As an adult I routinely get misgendered, but it's a so-what to me.
You're fortunate that the spelling is distinct. The story of Kim O'Grady is depressing.
https://www.thecut.com/2013/07/maybe-you-should-add-mister-t...
*solely because her legal, married name is Lauren Bush Lauren. She actually changed it, which is gold (and honestly very sweet).
I'd wager if it weren't for Clinton, most people would still associate it with men.
https://namedaisy.com/us/name/Hilary
There is a public index of forenames and surnames which I learned about when I was with my pregnant wife, and back then I was obsessively searching for my/our surname to see it increase by one when our newborn was registered and became "official".
Apparently within the whole of Finland there 22 men with the same surname as me, and 25 women. 21 of these people are in Finland and 26 are abroad but known.
Interestingly if I go to the forename search and look for people named "Steve" there are < 5 women with that name (i.e. non-zero, but the number masked for privacy reasons):
https://nimipalvelu.dvv.fi/en/forename-search?name=Steve
I'm curious about the origin there, though of course I've seen Steve -> Steffan -> Stephany, and similar translations in the past.
Looks like Europe has several countries with legal requirements, although the trend there is moving the other direction, plus Chile.
There are a lot of Ronins. Lots.
Sometime 8-12 years ago, dads in Marin got a glint in their eye:
"My son ... the wayward samurai ..."
The US may reach the 100% Boy Name Ronin-ification anywhere between 2057 or 10,327 AD.
e.g. “Pat” is cited, but doesn’t specify whether that refers to Patricia or Patrick.
Another interesting analysis would be the movement back and forth between full names and their associated common diminutives.
Source: The expandable "How we measured it" section at the bottom of the page
> "Well, I wish you every joy," Miles went on [...] He managed a wink. "Name the first one after me, eh?"
> [She] grinned. "I'm not sure she'd appreciate that. Milesanna? Milesia?"
> "Milesia sounds like a disease," Miles admitted, taken aback. "In that case, don't. I wouldn't want her to grow up hating me in absentia."
-- Memory (1996) by Lois McMaster Bujold
In the series, Miles having a name meaning "soldier" is, er, persistently thematically significant.
"John" or "Matthew" are probably never going to become female. Nor will "Elizabeth" or "Katherine" become male.
"Spencer" was male when Spencer Tracy was a big name. Today it could go either way. As a family name it relates to the profession of a steward.
I've wondered if the women that have carried the name have liked it? In my mind, it's always sounded very blunt so as to be feminine, but I recognize I'm heavily biased when it comes to my own name.
for people from languages that mark gender with an ending (romance languages for instance), putting the "wrong" ending something like a noun would sound odd or change the meaning
Or maybe it’s a good way to get your foot in the door in todays job market.
But yes, Stevie is very much still alive.
I’m not sure what they are measuring here though - if it’s only birth certificates then I’m sure Stevie is dominated by girls for a long time.
I feel like when I was a child more people were present with a PH, but nowadas virtually nobody. Most of the Stephens I know are "old", and I think "Steve" won.
But no doubt it varies on country, and who you know.
(I legally changed my name from Steven to Steve, a couple of years ago, because it was the only name I'd ever used and it got too tiresome dealing with my official passport, and ID saying one name when I signed/wrote another name on all my official paperwork. To the extent that employers would book flights in one name but my passport was in the other name, cue much hilarity at boarding time..)
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephanie
Moon Unit is a girls name.
Stevie is a nickname for the sweetener Stevia.
Not that I'm bitter or anything
Maybe it needs the birthday
edit: No, it's stuck in the 80s: "The data comes from a 5% sampling of Social Security card applications with dates of birth from January 1980 through December 1989"
https://metacpan.org/pod/Text::GenderFromName#REGARDING-THE-...
Super informative article.
In the past there were no hard associations between sexes and gender and it was possible to find boys wearing some pink clothing, but it was never the case that people associated pink with boys and blue with girls.
There are some limited examples that contribute to the misunderstanding. For example blue is often associated with the Virgin Mary and red (not pink) was considered a manly color often worn by warriors (e.g. the British, the Romans, etc).
---
This is essentially the way reporting works. If you write an article showing that in the past it wouldn't have been bizarre for boys to wear pink you don't get much traction. But if you write how pink was actually worn by boys and it was considered shocking for girls to wear it, then people find that very surprising and you get a lot of views (truth be damned).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gendered_associations_of_pink_...
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gendered_associations_of_pink_...
> In a 2017 letter to Archives of Sexual Behavior, researcher Marco Del Giudice commented on earlier claims about a supposed shift in pink–blue color associations or preferences sometime around the 1940s, from pink for boys and blue for girls before that period, to the opposite alignment afterward. He summarized his earlier work from 2012 which found "no evidence of either reversed or inconsistent usage prior to the 1940s".[41] Del Giudice called this theory the "Pink–blue reversal" (PBR), and said it was "usually attributed to [Jo] Paoletti", and quoted from five academic articles that reprised the theory of "pink is for boys" prior to the 1940s. However, he found upon analysis that it was exceptionally difficult to actually document such a shift, and exclaimed upon "the thinness of the evidence presented in support of the PBR".[42]
> In his 2012 paper, Del Giudice quoted from four articles published in academic journals which all echoed the claims about PBR theory, many relying on Paoletti, including Chiu et al., 2006: "Prior to that decade, Paoletti ... noted that the sex-dimorphic color coding of pink and blue was inverted, i.e., infant boys were dressed in pink and infant girls were dressed in blue";[43] Frassanito & Pettorini (2008): "At one point, pink was considered more of a boy's color ... blue was considered more for girls";[44] Cohen (2013): "the current stereotypical American assignment of pink to girls and blue to boys was reversed a century ago";[45] and Zucker (2005): "Yet, in the first two decades of the twentieth century, there is evidence that the gender-dimorphic nature of these two colors was inverted, that is, blue was judged to be stereotypically feminine whereas pink was judged to be stereotypically masculine."[46][47] But Paoletti never made the claim that pink and blue reversed, only that there was inconsistent usage that took until the 1950s to resolve[42] starting from the first appearances of gendered pink and blue color associations around the 1860s.[7]
tl;dr - gender is very clearly a social construct and we shouldn't get hung up on colors or names
- edited for clarity
There's another dimension to this which I think the failure to find consistent gender coding in earlier years bolsters.
There's some research that suggests gender signaling is more pronounced and starker in more modern, wealthy societies. In poorer societies people generally tend to not have the time, attention, or opportunities to invest in gender signaling, or fashion generally. Dress, etc, tended to be much more functional and less gendered for the sake of signaling. All the big examples that typically come to mind in poorer/older societies tend to be exceptional, e.g. marriage ceremonies or aristocratic fashion.
Which isn't to say there weren't ubiquitous cultural norms in fashion, just nowhere near the scope and sophistication as today. For centuries women wore dresses and now, with greater freedom, they don't nearly as often. But as a population they haven't chosen more androgynous styles, but quite the opposite. And the fashion cycle for women in particular has accelerated to an unfathomable degree. In prior eras there wouldn't have been much cultural space available for small distinctions like pink vs blue in daily garb.
I didn't say I doubted the claim, in fact I went to the trouble to say I believed it. So you should try again to glean what I could have meant.
ur turn to glean